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October 21, 2017, 07:58:24 pm
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Teasing the Crane in the Tang Collection?

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Author Topic: Teasing the Crane in the Tang Collection?  (Read 793 times)
Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2017, 11:29:46 pm »

Hi Steven

The earliest known overlay Xue Shaofu that I am aware of is 1898, this would not make it possible for the father to have a 60+ year painting career, but I do agree that the life span of the two artists can make it long and drawn out.  Another argument in this is that my earliest dated Xue Chengcai bottle is dated 1922, so this would also mean a 50+ year career for him. While not impossible (and only if there are no other Xue Chengcai bottles say from 190x), this is really all a bit unlikely, but not impossible. 

We may never really know how this all plays out.  But it remains really interesting and funny that we are revisiting a 5 year old discussion.   The most intriguing (to me, anyway), is that Joey's bottle is really painted 'old style, ie.  MPIP style), and mine from 1922 (or 1982?) is also.... 

The Shandong school as a whole had moved on way beyond that style by then... while for Xue Chengcai time stood still?  All a bit weird too no ?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 11:40:20 pm by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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Steven
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« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2017, 11:40:41 pm »

Hi Pat

The hands on the Xue chencai's bottles are consistent on both signature and painting techniques, So like what you said the chance that there are 2 xue chencai is very  little. or most likely impossible. Ye Bengqi had a 50 yrs career span, so I assume that is possible for Xue chencai as well.

Steven
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« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2017, 11:45:31 pm »

Yes Steven , like I said, unlikely, but not impossible and surely remarkable.   And makes those bottles even more special, in my view.   I would have a hard time placing my 1922 bottle in 1982 though.   Would you agree?   

For reference from Crane Collection, Ye Bengqi working period:

Born 1908, died in 1975, worked from 1924-1960 (36 year career, not 50)

http://www.thecranecollection.com/the-collection/inside-painted/modern-school/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=59&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=140&cHash=73f735c023

Update:

Whoever has Snuff Bottle Review, Vol 5, No. 3 September 1980:

Quote (author, name to be uncovered in earlier mags, accompanied by YF 'Happy' Yang, yes THE Y.F. Yang):  One painter recently retired at age 87, Xue Xi Xiang. It is interesting to note that he has the same surname as Xue Shaofu and his son Xue Chengcai. who are very well known Peking artists.
This the first ever confirmation that these guys are Beijing artists!  I always thought that overlay MPIP bottles were exclusive to Shandong, which seems now wrong.

Also, please note the link between the 1900 Boxer uprising and the cultural revolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Lanterns_(Boxer_Uprising)

More detail about the Boxer uprising:

https://www.facinghistory.org/nanjing-atrocities/nation-building/rebels-boxer-rebellion

Dear Joey

I would be very grateful if you could ask Y.F. Yang what he remembers about Xue Shaofu and Xue Chengcai in any details, to clear this up once and for all, for all of us.   Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 10:00:00 am by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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Joey
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« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2017, 09:19:18 am »

Dear Pat,

      I will send Mr. Yang a query right away.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2017, 12:40:47 pm »

Dear Pat,

Here is a video taken during early 70s while Ye bengqi is still painting. And I was told that Ye bengqi was still painting the day he died which was 1975.



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Steven
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« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2017, 06:11:21 pm »

Hi Steven

Ok lol. Thanks ! I can accept that but that's not what multiple other sources said. Let's just see what come back from Joey's inquiry about the Xue family. I want to put this debate to rest finally. Especially since there are 40 or more bottles (between both artists ) deserving to get categorized correctly. And as Beijing artists instead of Shandong artists. We keep learning more as we debate and sometimes disagree. Thanks for reviving the discussion!

All the best !
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« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2017, 06:16:24 pm »

Thanks Pat!!

I don't take it as a debate, we just put the things to together, so the info we have can be closer to the truth. That is all about it. We all learn together.

Best,

Steven
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« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2017, 01:49:24 pm »

Dear Pat, et al,

    Here is what Y.F. wrote me.
Self explanatory.
Best,
Joey


Dear Joey,

Thank you for your email.  It was very nice to hear from you, and hope you will recovery the cough soon.

Joey, regarding the Xue Shaofu and Xue Chengcai.  Until today I have not seen the Xue Chengcai's bottle, and I don't know what they are relationship.

Xue Shaofu, in the early days people can buy his bottle in a glass shop for the wedding gift in Beijing.

Hope everything is going well with you, and take care.

Best wishes,

Y. F.



 On Jun 19, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Joey Silver wrote:

 Dear Y.F.,

    Hope you are surviving Ramadan well.

   I would be very grateful if you could write me what you remember
 about Xue Shaofu and Xue Chengcai in any details. I have a bottle by
 the son (?) Xue Chengcai, that the late Robert Kleiner sold me as a
 1945-1948 bottle documenting the Great Patriotic War (against the
 Japs), but my friend Zhiyong Li swears must be Cultural Revolution,
 honouring the anti-Japanese resistance (Red Lantern Girl subject, but
 it looks older than 1960s/1970s).
  Thank you,
 Love to the family,
  Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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