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April 20, 2018, 02:03:26 am
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A jade and cloisonne metal bottle.

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Author Topic: A jade and cloisonne metal bottle.  (Read 264 times)
forestman
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« on: May 17, 2017, 11:25:31 am »

Wasn't to sure where to post this but it's one of a two bottle lot I recently bought and was described as a Mongolian style jade and enamelled white metal snuff bottle. The other bottle was also described as Mongolian style but is more Tibetan and this bottle is not white metal.

I see that I didn't picture it's best side as the crack in the jade at the base doesn't go all around the bottle.

It's somewhat different and I haven't seen anything similar but I find it very appealing.

Height is 68 mm.

Regards, Adrian.


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George
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 12:02:58 pm »

I am in love Adrian !

I think your correct thinking this Tibetan over Mongolian.. The stopper, like the bottle is very elegant..

Really a wonderful bottle and congratulations !
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forestman
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 12:36:39 pm »

Thanks George.

I'll post the other Tibetan bottle shortly.

The question that always raises debate. Should I clean this bottle ?

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 02:57:24 pm »

I think this one above looks Tibetan..

My vote is not to clean..
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Rube
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 04:21:21 pm »

Adrian,

I, or my brother, rather, has a very similar bottle, almost exact!  I've always liked it
very much.  I had no idea it was considered Tibetan, any thoughts to age?

Congrats on both bottles,


Rheuben.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 03:12:18 am »

Ah, the wonders of this forum. I really wasn't expecting anyone to have anything like this bottle.

I'm wondering about it being Tibetan.

Most Tibetan bottles have twisted wire filigree work but I haven't seen any filled with enamel as on this bottle. It also doesn't have any inset stone or semi precious stone which they don't seem able to resist.

There may be a sense of a European influence to it ?

I'm in two minds as to cleaning it. Show it has age or clean it so it reflects the way it's maker intended it to be seen.

Regards, Adrian.
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Rube
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 11:51:27 am »

Adrian,

Close cousins, I think!  This is a photograph of a photograph from my mother's collection
before it was split up.  My brother has it now.  This bottle was purchased in Hong Kong in 1973 by a family friend.

Cheeers,


Rheuben


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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 01:17:19 pm »

Hi Rheuben,

More than close cousins, the metalwork and enamel are exactly the same, the only difference is the jade and before I saw that I was going to ask if your brother still had his as they are so alike.

The stoppers in particular remind me of jewellery, a brooch for instance.

It would be interesting to find out more about them.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 10:27:40 pm »

They both look like Spinach Green Nephrite to me.
The metalwork looks like that of bottles I was taught to date to the 1950s to early 1970s.
 But I never saw it matched with an older jade piece, like in these two examples.
The two bottles are very interesting.
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 03:34:26 am »

Dear Joey,

The jade is effectively a sleeve over a metal body. The jade is also in two pieces as the metal body can be seen at the waist of the bottle.

It wouldn't seem that out of place to say 1950's but it's interesting in that it doesn't seem to have been made to copy an older style of bottle.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 08:29:11 am »

Dear Adrian,

     They are each made of two cylindrical pieces? Are the pieces big enough to have been pairs of ceremonial jade archer's rings?

    Remember that there are people with taste and style in every period, so there is no reason they could not be 1950s AND original artworks.
In any event, the thin enamel looks 'right' on these two bottles, where it looks cheap on the ones with allover decoration.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

AntPeople
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 11:01:57 am »

I was too thinking that it looks more of 2 archer's ring joined together rounded end to rounded end rather than a snuff bottle.... Grin

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

Rube
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 11:58:31 am »

Very interesting comments.  I can't speak as to whether my brother's bottle is two
pieces or not, but will seek out that information in the future.  The possibility that
these were constructed using archer rings is something that never occurred to me.

Cheers,


Rheuben.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

forestman
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 01:05:26 pm »

Yes, archers rings makes sense and the size is right. Well spotted Joey.

In trying to find the size of an archers ring I came across an article which likened archers rings to snuff bottles in the variety of materials and forms of decoration on them making them as collectable as snuff bottles. Here I am collecting both without knowing it !

Regards, Adrian.
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Wattana
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 01:45:40 am »

Like Joey and Pin, my first thought when I saw this bottle (never seen one like it before)  was a stacked pair of archer's rings.

Tom
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Tom
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Joey
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2017, 07:33:01 am »

   I have a couple of friends, members of the ICSBS from one of the Maryland suburbs of Washington DC (at one time in Silver Spring; now in North Bethesda), who collect archer's rings in addition to snuff bottles.  And for exactly the reason Adrian mentioned - that they come in almost as many materials as snuff bottles.

   Ted, the husband, started when he saw a small group of 4 or 5 sold as one lot, and the lot was much cheaper than a snuff bottle!  Probably since there is no "International Chinese Archers' Rings Society"! 
Grin Roll Eyes
 
   For a long time, they were tens of US dollars each, when equivalent snuff bottles were already hundreds and even thousands, of US dollars each.

  And one of his bottles is a single white nephrite jade archer's ring, with very similar metal mounts, forming the body of a snuff bottle.  It was not a big stretch from that to seeing a pair of archer's rings in these 2 very interesting  examples.

  A real pity about the crack in the bottom ring of your bottle, Adrian. I'd not noticed it before (I was not really looking, I shamefully admit. Me bad. Roll Eyes Cry).

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Rube
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2017, 10:18:12 am »

Greetings Everyone,

I'd just like to send you another picture of my brother's bottle similar to Adrian's and also another made from turquoise.

Cheers,

Rube.


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* FullSizeRender double gourd turquoise 3.jpg (86.32 KB, 480x640 - viewed 8 times.)
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2017, 12:45:01 pm »

Another truly beautiful bottle Rube... Thanks for sharing it !
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forestman
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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2017, 01:18:58 pm »

Hi Rube,

It's likely that the last bottle was made by the same person who made the other 2.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 01:41:55 pm »

Dear Rube,

     Both bottles are very interesting, and Adrian may well be correct that the same person could have made all three.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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