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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
July 16, 2018, 03:24:24 pm
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Coral Cicada

Poll
Question: ax5PA
DUExNDIRSTkHrmwT
aCpifTSaC
jZomOMIUUyYucYjdqM
AqHOgMGanc
ONCLUSEBCxYoaPqlst

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Author Topic: Coral Cicada  (Read 1376 times)
cshapiro
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« on: April 11, 2017, 06:54:06 pm »

Sometimes it feels like we are sharing baby pictures here! Sometimes we actually are (referring to George's cute grandbaby)! So this is my new baby, a handsome coral cicada!

It is very well hollowed and has a lovely apple green jade collar and natural pearl stopper and is 5.7cm long.

I don't know how to date coral - so have no idea old it is. I do have some provenance on it - bought in 1963 from Y.F. Yang, Hong Kong by a South Carolina collector.



« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 06:58:38 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy

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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 08:17:47 pm »

Cathy,

This is delightful!  I love the shade of coral accompanied by such a nice top!

Congrats on your baby,


Rheuben.
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 08:48:54 pm »

Thanks Rheuben! 
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Cathy
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 10:23:09 pm »

nice piece.... congratulation

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 11:33:41 pm »

Nice one Cathy! And you shouldn't go wrong with Y.F. Yang as provenance. But coral is something beyond my reach since shipping of it is restricted by CITES.

I also think it's better to post it under the "organic bottle" category.

Best,
Samson
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cshapiro
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 11:52:30 pm »

Thanks Pin!

Thanks Samson! I found an article online from 1987 about shops in Hong Kong that mentioned Y.F. Yang - found out it opened in 1963 - was located in the Ocean Terminal, and was a very reputable place to buy snuff bottles - maybe even "the" the place to buy them. All the rest of the references to it are from big auction houses where Y.F. Yang is listed in the provenance.

Oh and my bad... I totally meant to post this under organic... wonder if George can move it?

Also I am wondering about the age of the bottle. Would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me.
Does the lighter orange signify age or is that just the type of coral? And can the carving give me any clues to it's age?
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 12:13:42 am »

Hi Cathy,

Congratulations! A beautiful bottle. As mentioned by Samson, Y. F. Yang is one of the most respected snuff bottle dealers out there. I met him in 1978 when he still had his shop in Ocean Terminal. When I re-visited Hong Kong in the early 1990s, the shop had moved to a new location, and was run by his son Stanley. His father had retired to Hawaii, where he still lives. I believe Joey maintains contact with him.

I have not handled enough coral bottles to advise on age. With a provenance dating back to 1963 I would say there were so many genuine old bottles pouring into Hong Kong out of Mainland China at that time (and demand relatively low) that it was hardly worth anybody's time and effort to produce new bottles.

Tom
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 12:50:08 am »

With a provenance dating back to 1963 I would say there were so many genuine old bottles pouring into Hong Kong out of Mainland China at that time (and demand relatively low) that it was hardly worth anybody's time and effort to produce new bottles.

You've got a point Tom...

Best,
Samson

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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 01:03:59 am »

Wonderful bottle Cathy, and congratulations !!
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 01:41:19 am »

Thank you Tom and George! It's great to know all this about Y.F. Yang because I bought two other bottles from this gentleman with the same provenance. The man I am buying from is 80, and his father was the collector. He kept hand written accounts of his bottles.  

The gentleman says his father also made a trip to China in 1980 and bought some bottles then from Y.F. Yang and his son S.K.Yang- so that must have been Stanley. It's interesting that the bottles he bought in 1980 were modern inside painted - while the older bottles were bought on the 1963 trip.

Also great to be mindful of what was going on in the country at that time. So the man must have traveled to China right about the time of the famines from the Great Leap Forward and the beginnings of the cultural revolution and so I imagine an antique would have very little value. Then he traveled again right after the revolution.

I haven't seen anyone write about that before on the forum - although I've read about it elsewhere - that a great deal of China's treasures that weren't destroyed must have ended up in the west during that time. What a tragic history China has. I was just reading again about the death tolls from the Great Leap Forward and it's hard to imagine. But there are conflicting reports - would love to get a real history lesson from some of our Chinese members perspectives.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 01:53:15 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 02:52:42 am »

Nice bottle Cathy!

I first met Mr Yang at the Honolulu Convention in 1994 and is constantly in touch with Stanley. I last met Stanely in Hong Kong last year at his residence.

Good coral bottles are hard to come by these days. I have 2 in my collection and waiting to add a few more if the right ones come along.

Enjoy your bottle!


Richard
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 02:54:19 am »


Also great to be mindful of what was going on in the country at that time. So the man must have traveled to China right about the time of the famines from the Great Leap Forward and the beginnings of the cultural revolution and so I imagine an antique would have very little value.


Cathy,

You are indeed privileged to have several bottles with Y. F. Yang provenance. I have a collector friend who was working in Hong Kong in the mid 1960s. Whenever a new shipment of snuff bottles arrived from Mainland China the dealers would call him. According to him there were crates full of bottles, hundreds of them, all crudely wrapped in newspaper and straw.

But of course, the other side of the coin is that huge numbers of people across the border were starving and selling whatever valuables they had just to survive.

Tom  
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 08:33:21 am »

Thank you Richard and Tom!

I will treasure these - and honor their history.

The other two are inside painted ones from Chen Zhongsan and Tang Zichuan and the CZS is particularly nice so will post it when it arrives.

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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 02:15:24 pm »

It is in the Organic category, Samson. Huh
Joey


Nice one Cathy! And you shouldn't go wrong with Y.F. Yang as provenance. But coral is something beyond my reach since shipping of it is restricted by CITES.

I also think it's better to post it under the "organic bottle" category.

Best,
Samson
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 02:57:19 pm »

Cathy,

     You asked about dating. I have almost the mate to it in White Nephrite, ca. 1760-1820, and I would date yours similarly, but yours seems to have no wear, which is odd, considering how soft coral is.  I think it is ca.1890-1935, based on what seems total lack of wear.
 
     And in my opinion, Y.F. Yang (Yong Fu Yang; and you are correct - S.K. Yang IS Stanley, the oldest son), is as good a provenance as one can get.

    I've written about Y.F. on the Forum.

He was born in Beijing in 1921, and is of the Hui  minority and a Moslem. In 1939, Y.F. escaped the Japanese occupation in Beijing (then called Peiping, or [City of] Northern Peace - the capital had been moved to Nanjing, closer to the geographic centre of China, at the start of the Republic of China in 1911], and moved to Shanghai.

   Y.F. succeeded in getting to Hong Kong in late 1962 or early 1963. As Tom has mentioned, his shop, Y.F. Yang & Co., was in Ocean Terminal, Tsimshatsui, Kowloon from 1963 till the early 1990s,  when the shop moved to elsewhere in Tsimshatsui, Kowloon. In late 1980 or early 1981, Y.F. himself, accompanied by his 2nd son and a daughter, moved to Honolulu, but not to retire.

   He went into business with the late Mrs. Patricia Miller, who'd had a vanity business called Antiques Pacifica at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel in Waikiki. Patty was herself a noted snuff bottle collector, and the shop had been supplied by Y.F. for years with Chinese and other East Asian antiques and antiquities. Patty was also a close personal friend of mine.

   Later, Patty sold him the business, and he ran it for years, assisted by his son Ernest and his daughter, Liang. They later changed the firm name to Antique House [after they moved from the Royal Hawaiian Hotel to other locations, first also in Waikiki and then to Chinatown]; in Hong Kong, the firm has stayed Y.F. Yang & Co.
 
   Mr. Yang is today a spry 96 year old. I last visited him in Nov.2016.

Joey
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 03:20:19 pm »

Thank you Joey! Wonderful information about dating the bottle and about Y.F. Yang  Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 06:24:08 pm »

It is in the Organic category, Samson. Huh
Joey


Nice one Cathy! And you shouldn't go wrong with Y.F. Yang as provenance. But coral is something beyond my reach since shipping of it is restricted by CITES.

I also think it's better to post it under the "organic bottle" category.

Best,
Samson

Dear Joey,

It wasn't two days ago... Roll Eyes Thanks to George, it now is... Smiley

Best,
Samson
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2017, 02:51:57 am »

I just want to say Cathy, that you have sure collected some really nice bottles since you have joined up here..

Congratulations on all of your recent bottles, including this one !
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2017, 05:54:16 am »

Hi Cathy,

Congrats on your superb cicada bottle! Is is quite wonderful. I have a soft spot in my heart for the cicada form and in addition to my opal bottle, I also collect jade cicadas. Yours is very nice. Good for you!

Regards,

Toni-Lee
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2017, 06:03:04 am »

Hi Joey,

Interesting that you mention Antiques Pacifica at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel. I bought several pieces of jade from Patrica Miller  and at the time, I wasn't into snuff bottles. Who knew?  Thanks for the information and walk down memory lane.

Best,

Toni-Lee
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