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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
July 21, 2018, 04:55:40 am
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2 plain bottles, are they too plain ?

Poll
Question: lKp1Au
LXMRfeAHPK - 1 (100%)
pDKCfllyxTSbORXXP - 0 (0%)
howpYixOrCOWMz - 0 (0%)
SJVRtIyqCIrz - 0 (0%)
VtDqoYLN - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 1

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Author Topic: 2 plain bottles, are they too plain ?  (Read 2404 times)
Wattana
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« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2017, 11:55:48 pm »

Well they are minute and even a bit difficult at 200X , but there does seem to be some impurities..

Good sign!
Basically the same test for telling the difference between a natural and synthetic diamond....  Wink
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Tom
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« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2017, 03:35:26 am »

Dear George,
I am very happy that you did post your bottle. It is a super clear evidence of all my previous reasoning about the real wall thickness of Adrian’s bottle. We should be VERY cautious in judging the thickness by transparency. A minimum change of the curvature of the surface can produce an huge variation of the apparent thickness.
Look at George’s bottle, here below.
Without the presence of the snuff, who would not think that the inner wall is in correspondence of the lower yellow arrow and the blue arrow on the right? Everybody will bet that the inner wall is there.
But the snuff is showing, see the red arrows, that the inner wall is in another place, suggesting a thicker wall.
Well, now please do follow the apparent inner wall of the bottom, the one pointed by the lower yellow arrow. Follow that line toward the right corner. If you then follow it upwards, you will see that it goes up in correspondence of the blue arrow. But in the very lower right corner we can see that that line suddenly jumps to the right, going in correspondence of the upper yellow arrow.
So, which is the real position of the inner surface? Is that of the yellow, red, or blue arrows? The answer is that we do not know. Only by eyes, we are not able to safely say which is the real thickness of the wall of that bottle. Each of the three position that we are seeing may perfectly be out of the real position, displaced by the optical effect.
Please remember that that is true even in case of a perfectly plain, transparent medium. The phenomenon is refraction. When the light goes from a medium through another medium of different density, it suffers a change in direction. The fish that we see underwater is not really there, it is a bit displaced. The moon is not there, it too is displaced because of the deviation of light at the vacuum / Earth atmosphere interface.
Imagine when we look something through a rounded surface. We have both refraction and reflection phenomenons in our case, because of the two facing inner and outer walls.
Dear Tom, I believe that it is not right to assume that artificial rock crystal (i. e. glass) is always void of impurities. Why impurities could not be added purposely? That is true for artificial diamonds because of the way of production, but in case of glass it is perfectly possible.
Kind regards
Giovanni


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Wattana
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« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2017, 03:59:07 am »


 I believe that it is not right to assume that artificial rock crystal (i. e. glass) is always void of impurities. Why impurities could not be added purposely? That is true for artificial diamonds because of the way of production, but in case of glass it is perfectly possible.


Dear Giovanni,

Of course, impurities could be added purposely.
Firstly, I am assuming no one would go out of their way to do this, unless they are trying to create a special effect.
Secondly, the type of impurity introduced artificially into man-made glass are very different from the types found in natural quartz. So to add some impurities for the purpose of deception seems pointless.

Regards,
Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2017, 09:36:11 am »

Dear Tom,
I am not sure about that. I have some bottles that I am not able to say if made of quartz or glass, because it is not clear if the impurities are natural or artificial. As soon I will have time I will post the pictures of an IP bottle which I suspect is made of glass imitating quartz and will be happy to hear your opinion.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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forestman
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« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2017, 07:45:24 am »

A new addition to add to the thread.

Sapphire blue glass, rounded spade shape with flat sides and on an inset raised footrim. 58mm high.

I'm not sure age wise as it unusual to have a raised footrim, a flat footrim with a slightly concave base would have been nice.

Regards, Adrian.


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Joey
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« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2017, 02:10:05 pm »

Dear Adrian,

   Why are you querying the age of this bottle?
Absolutely no reason it can't have a raised foot-rim and be 18th C., much less 19th C.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2017, 04:48:47 pm »

Dear Joey,

I guess there isn't anything in a raised footrim to suggest an age of a bottle, other things need to be looked at.

I do find the different types of footrims interesting especially when you consider the amount of input that some Emperors had in snuff bottle production and design. Would a certain Emperor have a preference for a certain style of footrim ? If I was in their position I would give instructions for a particular style to be used depending on the bottle style and there seems to have been freedom for lapidaries to choose for themselves.

For this bottle I would prefer a flat footrim as it would ground the bottle more.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #107 on: December 06, 2017, 04:46:50 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     That's a personal call, I believe.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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