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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 13, 2018, 04:47:24 pm
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2 plain bottles, are they too plain ?

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Author Topic: 2 plain bottles, are they too plain ?  (Read 2605 times)
Wattana
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« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2017, 11:55:48 pm »

Well they are minute and even a bit difficult at 200X , but there does seem to be some impurities..

Good sign!
Basically the same test for telling the difference between a natural and synthetic diamond....  Wink
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Tom
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« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2017, 03:35:26 am »

Dear George,
I am very happy that you did post your bottle. It is a super clear evidence of all my previous reasoning about the real wall thickness of Adrianís bottle. We should be VERY cautious in judging the thickness by transparency. A minimum change of the curvature of the surface can produce an huge variation of the apparent thickness.
Look at Georgeís bottle, here below.
Without the presence of the snuff, who would not think that the inner wall is in correspondence of the lower yellow arrow and the blue arrow on the right? Everybody will bet that the inner wall is there.
But the snuff is showing, see the red arrows, that the inner wall is in another place, suggesting a thicker wall.
Well, now please do follow the apparent inner wall of the bottom, the one pointed by the lower yellow arrow. Follow that line toward the right corner. If you then follow it upwards, you will see that it goes up in correspondence of the blue arrow. But in the very lower right corner we can see that that line suddenly jumps to the right, going in correspondence of the upper yellow arrow.
So, which is the real position of the inner surface? Is that of the yellow, red, or blue arrows? The answer is that we do not know. Only by eyes, we are not able to safely say which is the real thickness of the wall of that bottle. Each of the three position that we are seeing may perfectly be out of the real position, displaced by the optical effect.
Please remember that that is true even in case of a perfectly plain, transparent medium. The phenomenon is refraction. When the light goes from a medium through another medium of different density, it suffers a change in direction. The fish that we see underwater is not really there, it is a bit displaced. The moon is not there, it too is displaced because of the deviation of light at the vacuum / Earth atmosphere interface.
Imagine when we look something through a rounded surface. We have both refraction and reflection phenomenons in our case, because of the two facing inner and outer walls.
Dear Tom, I believe that it is not right to assume that artificial rock crystal (i. e. glass) is always void of impurities. Why impurities could not be added purposely? That is true for artificial diamonds because of the way of production, but in case of glass it is perfectly possible.
Kind regards
Giovanni


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Wattana
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« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2017, 03:59:07 am »


 I believe that it is not right to assume that artificial rock crystal (i. e. glass) is always void of impurities. Why impurities could not be added purposely? That is true for artificial diamonds because of the way of production, but in case of glass it is perfectly possible.


Dear Giovanni,

Of course, impurities could be added purposely.
Firstly, I am assuming no one would go out of their way to do this, unless they are trying to create a special effect.
Secondly, the type of impurity introduced artificially into man-made glass are very different from the types found in natural quartz. So to add some impurities for the purpose of deception seems pointless.

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2017, 09:36:11 am »

Dear Tom,
I am not sure about that. I have some bottles that I am not able to say if made of quartz or glass, because it is not clear if the impurities are natural or artificial. As soon I will have time I will post the pictures of an IP bottle which I suspect is made of glass imitating quartz and will be happy to hear your opinion.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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forestman
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« Reply #104 on: December 05, 2017, 07:45:24 am »

A new addition to add to the thread.

Sapphire blue glass, rounded spade shape with flat sides and on an inset raised footrim. 58mm high.

I'm not sure age wise as it unusual to have a raised footrim, a flat footrim with a slightly concave base would have been nice.

Regards, Adrian.


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« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2017, 02:10:05 pm »

Dear Adrian,

   Why are you querying the age of this bottle?
Absolutely no reason it can't have a raised foot-rim and be 18th C., much less 19th C.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2017, 04:48:47 pm »

Dear Joey,

I guess there isn't anything in a raised footrim to suggest an age of a bottle, other things need to be looked at.

I do find the different types of footrims interesting especially when you consider the amount of input that some Emperors had in snuff bottle production and design. Would a certain Emperor have a preference for a certain style of footrim ? If I was in their position I would give instructions for a particular style to be used depending on the bottle style and there seems to have been freedom for lapidaries to choose for themselves.

For this bottle I would prefer a flat footrim as it would ground the bottle more.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #107 on: December 06, 2017, 04:46:50 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     That's a personal call, I believe.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #108 on: November 23, 2018, 06:57:43 pm »

Dear All,

Re. Glass bottles carved from ingots.
I am posting this example here, as it seems to be the most relevant thread to put it in. It is an example belonging to a friend of mine who recently passed away.

Glass of clear monolithic material, of flattened flask form on a broad raised foot rim, the hollowing left unfinished.
Height: 5.5 cm w/o stopper

It very clearly demonstrates the laborious technique involved in hollowing out the interior. What is interesting to me is that the exterior was completely finished before the interior hollowing was started.

Tom 


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Tom
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George
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« Reply #109 on: November 23, 2018, 10:01:47 pm »

What is interesting to me is that the exterior was completely finished before the interior hollowing was started.



From the few videos I have watched, that is how it was done.. 

I have yet to find a video or snap shot into a carvers workshop that shows the tool used for getting up into the shoulders.

Sorry to hear about your friend Tom..  A beautiful bottle .. 
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« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2018, 01:11:21 am »

 
Dear George,
 
    I'd call that example 'informative' or  'interesting', rather than 'beautiful'. it's an unfinished object...
Best to all,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #111 on: November 26, 2018, 11:32:23 pm »

Dear Adrian,

Thanks for sharing, I like your bottle which including the foot rim.

-Dear Tom,

How would you date the unfinished bottle ? is it a glass bottle? The condition is so well, it almost looks like the quartz to me.

Best,

Steven
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Wattana
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« Reply #112 on: November 27, 2018, 02:46:37 am »

Dear Steven,

I agree, it looks like quartz, but it is clear glass.

Best,
Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #113 on: November 27, 2018, 07:31:36 am »

Hi Tom,

What I find interesting is how the hollowed part looks like someone sprayed it with fake snow. I would never have imagined that hollowing with tube drills would leave the inside surface so minutely uneven, I would have thought it would be far smoother. It's a bottle I would like to have in my hand so I could examine the inside in detail.

Regards, Adrian.
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