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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 25, 2017, 08:47:41 pm
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small unidentified IP bottle

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Rube
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« on: March 02, 2017, 05:12:57 am »

Greetings,

I'm attaching another IP bottle and am seeking help in identifying the artist and translation on the bottle.  It's crystal, and measures 1 13/16" tall.
Just got done looking at a YST thread and noticed some characteristic similarities, but its not a war theme, and I really don't have a clue.
Any help will greatly be appreciated.

Cheers,

Rheueben


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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 07:43:22 am »

Rheuben

This is an early  Yong Shoutian bottle based on style and signature (but hard to see in pics). Other Chinese readers can help with the translation. Not sure this is rock crystal. I have yet to see my first rock crystal bottle from him. But there is always a first time...
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Pat
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Rube
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 08:41:39 am »

Pat,
Thanks so much for your analysis! This bottle was another from my grandmothers collection and in her notes she simply calls it tiny crystal that she bought in Peking. I do see inclusions but I'll have to get some better pics for you. It's my intention to create a crude light box and photograph these bottles properly so I can catalog her collection and distribute to my cousins.  Pin, I believe it was your list of characteristics you posted about YST bottles in another thread, so thank you for the helpful observations about his style.
Cheers,

Rheuben
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AntPeople
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 09:21:15 am »

You are welcome and glad that the list is useful..... it's definitely a nice YST

The first side of the bottle says「撕扇子作干金一笑」,the picture is kind of blur , the meaning is, tear up the fan to get a giggle from the pretty lady.  It's chapter 31 of the Red Mansion.

YST also drew a lot of Red Mansion theme.... this should be one of them

The second side says... painted in Beijing, by YST.

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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Rube
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 09:44:35 am »

Pin,
Thanks for the translation. I'm interested that it says painted in Beijing instead of Peking. When my grandmother first visited China in the 1920's, she visited "Peking". And though she returned years later to Beijing, she still always referred to the city as "Peking" in her notes.  What years did YST paint bottles?

Cheers,


Rheuben.
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 09:52:45 am »

Hi Rheuben

Peking is the old English translated name... Beijing is the new name using the Han Yu Pin Yin system. But in Chinese.... it has been the same city name since Ming dynasty..... 北京。

There's no date on the bottle, just the artist signature when he signed off

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com
Joey
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 10:03:24 am »

Dear Rheuben,

      'Beijing' and 'Peking' are the same place. The city's name is pronounced 'Peking' in the old Wade-Giles romanization (writing Chinese in Latin letters), invented by 2 English scholars. It developed from a system produced by Thomas Wade, during the mid-19th century, and given completed form with Herbert A. Giles's Chinese–English Dictionary of 1892.

    And it is pronounced 'Beijing' in the newer Hanyu Pinyin romanization, invented by Chinese scholar Zhou Youguang in the 1950s.

   Both mean  "Northern Capital" [as 'Nanjing' means "Southern Capital"; 'Dongjing', which means "Eastern Capital", you will probably more readily recognise in its Japanese pronunciation: 'To-Kyo'! Roll Eyes Grin]

   But actually, when your grandmother visited the city in the 1920s (and you can't imagine how I envy her that privilege, of being in Beijing after the fall of the Qing Empire in 1911, but before the Japanese invasion in 1937!
Wow! The freedom of a Western tourist in those years!), it would have been called 'Peiping', [City of] "Heavenly Peace" {or at least, from 1928-1949}. By the way, George Kates wrote a facinating book about his time in 'old Peking', "The Years That Were Fat, Peking 1933-1940". It is a facinating look at the life of an American expat there at the same time period.

    Did your grandmother leave a journal of her visit? How long was she there?

   Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 10:43:04 am »

Wonderful bottle Rheueben, and congratulations..

Looks like others have provided all the info for you...  Smiley
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Rube
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 04:36:38 pm »

Thanks George!  What was the time frame for YST bottles in general?
Pin, I appreciate the clarification and translation with regards to Peking and Beijing.
Joey,  thanks for the geography lesson too!

Regarding my grandmother, yes, she was quite fortunate to have the opportunities to travel when she did and as much as she did. On this particular trip she was traveling with her aunt, and they spent a year abroad together, traveling all over Asia.  My grandmother's wrote about her travels later in life, but I do have the letters that her aunt wrote to her mother (my great grandmother) during the trip!  They are beautifully written, and it's taking me time to go through them, as the penmanship is somewhat formal and hard to decipher at times.  It's quite a shame that the handwritten letter is becoming somewhat a thing of the past, so I cherish these family heirlooms.

Cheers,


Rheuben.
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 04:50:55 pm »

Thanks George!  What was the time frame for YST bottles in general?

Painted from 1898 to 1926

Here is more ...
http://snuffbottlecollector.com/yong_shou_tien/yst_1.htm
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 05:25:04 pm »

Dear Rheuben,

     Did they concentrate on East Asia, or did they also get to West Asia (like Israel, then the British controlled Mandate called Palestine-E"Y)?   'E"Y' stands for 'Eretz Yisrael' (Land of Israel).
Best,
Joey


Thanks George!  What was the time frame for YST bottles in general?
Pin, I appreciate the clarification and translation with regards to Peking and Beijing.
Joey,  thanks for the geography lesson too!

Regarding my grandmother, yes, she was quite fortunate to have the opportunities to travel when she did and as much as she did. On this particular trip she was traveling with her aunt, and they spent a year abroad together, traveling all over Asia.  My grandmother's wrote about her travels later in life, but I do have the letters that her aunt wrote to her mother (my great grandmother) during the trip!  They are beautifully written, and it's taking me time to go through them, as the penmanship is somewhat formal and hard to decipher at times.  It's quite a shame that the handwritten letter is becoming somewhat a thing of the past, so I cherish these family heirlooms.

Cheers,


Rheuben.
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Rube
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 07:39:30 pm »

George,

Thanks for the link.

Joey, 

I'm pretty sure she made over there too.  I'll have to get back to you on specifics though.
I recall she mentioned spending time in Iraq...

Cheers,

Rheuben.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2017, 04:12:21 pm »

Dear Rheuben,
 
      Oh, you are killing me here!

     In the late 1920s and the 1930s, Doris Duke traveled in Iraq and Syria, buying the most superb furniture inlaid with mother of pearl, silver wire and carved bone. You can see her collections in 'Shangrila', her estate on Black Point in the Kahala neighbourhood of Honolulu, HI. It is now in the possession of HoMA, and they conduct tours (you book and pay at the museum at 900 South Beretania St., and they ferry you over as a group to the estate. WELL WORTH A VISIT!).

    I also have a small, modest collection of this furniture, which we in Israel call 'Damascus' furniture, after the most important centre of production (though it was a feature of Islamic furniture from Morocco in the West to Mindanao (southern Philippines) in the East. Among other treasures, I have a great 19th C. Moslem bride's dowry chest from Mindanao in my Irish home; I bought it from a Filipino tourist in Israel for US$35, and in Ireland had it in a 'place of pride' in my front porch.  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

    Till a Filipino friend, Eddy Jose, a world renowned scroll and art restorer, saw it, and suggested I bring in this piece, worth today over US$8,000! Immediately, I brought it inside, and placed it in my upstairs parlour, where you can see it as you come upstairs to the first floor, where 4 of the bedrooms are situated.

    Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
   
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