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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 25, 2017, 08:45:18 pm
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Unidentified IP bottle

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Author Topic: Unidentified IP bottle  (Read 1400 times)
Rube
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« on: February 26, 2017, 08:02:08 am »

Greetings,

I want to start this message by saying how much I've enjoyed this forum.  My wife is not so thrilled, bc now i'm spending a lot of spare time here, but I've learned so much in a short amount of time reading your past posts and questions to one another, so thank you all! As a newbie, I've got a lot of questions, and I'm trying to find the answers before I ask, but I'm stumped on this IP bottle, and the name of the artist.  Not knowing how to read calligraphy, I'm wondering when I try to id artist characters, where in the calligraphy do I look? Is it next to the red seals? Also, on this particular bottle, there seem to be red seals on both sides, so what is the significance of that? I'm sorry for the poor quality of these pictures, they were taken on my phone before I joined this forum, so they're all I have to work with.

Thanks again for any help you may provide me, and just for sharing your collective wealth of information in general on this forum!

Cheers,


Rheuben.


* IMG_8615-1.JPG (80.79 KB, 640x480 - viewed 38 times.)

* IMG_8616-1.JPG (74.23 KB, 640x480 - viewed 30 times.)
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 05:09:54 pm »

Hi  Rheuben,

Please  would  you  rotate  your  pics  to vertical before  posting ?

As it is  we  have to  first  download your  pics, store/rotate/save/view  to  view them  instead of just one  click / view

Every standard  pre-installed software  (Windows, whatever) includes a simple program to open  jpgs and  rotate them

The same  programs  allow you  to compress jpgs before  posting

Many thanks

Cheers
Peter (Hong Kong  collector  of  VMIPBs)
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samsonlzj
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 05:30:50 pm »

Dear Rheubeb,

The front side (I suppose the first pic shows the front) depicts a scene of a bunch of children celebrating the Chinese lunar new year. Here they're lighting up the fire cracker/firework. The characters here - 恭賀新禧 basically mean Happy New Year.

I can't quite tell the characters on the other side except for "赤城" which literally means "red city"...

Hope it helps somewhat.

Best,
Samson

P.S. Strange enough, the pics appeared to be horizontal at first but when I clicked to enlarge them, they became upright... So no problem... Smiley
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 07:31:58 pm »

Hi  Samson,  Rheube,

'the pics appeared to be horizontal at first but when I clicked to enlarge them, they became upright."

You're  right !

Cheers
Peter
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Rube
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 08:13:06 pm »

Dear Peter and Samson,

I'm embarrassed to admit that I probably know less about computers than I do about snuff bottles ( which is pathetic)
but when I downloaded the photos, they were upright, I don't know why they appear sideways after I post them?
Anyhow,  Samson, thank you for your insights. I'm wondering if this isn't a more modern IP bottle?  Any clues to the artist?

Cheers,


Rheuben.
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 08:27:46 pm »

Rheuben

The bottle shape suggests it is a Shandong (Boshan) bottle, which leads me to believe it is a late 1960s/70s Shandong artist who painted this in the cultural revolution era.  I have a very similar bottle, also without artist name. It is inscribed Chinese New Year 1972. I really like yours too...  Given one of the sides is the same it is probably the same artist. 


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* bird and kids 3.jpg (9.77 KB, 69x248 - viewed 6 times.)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 08:55:21 pm by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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Pat
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samsonlzj
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 08:47:43 pm »

Dear Rheuben,

I agree with Pat. A nice bottle indeed! I really like it!

Best,
Samson
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George
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 09:40:47 pm »

I also agree with Pat...

Good job Pat !
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Rube
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 05:30:10 am »

George and Samson, thanks for your kind replies regarding this bottle!  Pat, I agree with you as well, that the one side of the bottle looks identical to yours!  I love the subject matter as the child in the foreground appears to jump off the bottle. And I like the natural scene on your bottle too. Your timeline appears correct as according to my grandmother's records, this bottle was purchased from Michael Kaynes in 1980, and she called it a modern bottle.  My grandfather was a geologist and often sent mineral specimens to Mr. Kaynes which he had made into bottles for my grandmother's collection.  Sometimes they would also buy bottles from him, too, as they were early members of the ICSBS.

Well, Happy New Year!


Rheuben
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Joey
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 08:40:49 am »

Dear Rheuben,

    First of all, I like both your bottle and Pat's, and agree they are Cultural revolution period (ca. 1966-1976) examples, and very appealing.

   I must correct you re. 'ICSBS & Michael Kaynes'. Mr. Kaynes-Klitz was never a member of the ICSBS, The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society, based since its inception in Nov.1968 in Baltimore MD, where the founder & first president, Edward Choate O'Dell of blessed memory, lived.

   It was first called The Chinese Snuff Bottle Society of America, and changed its name years later, to the present one.

   Michael & Elizabeth Kaynes-Klitz founded their 'own' Society, The Hong Kong Snuff Bottle Society in the mid-1960s, and later changed its name to The First International Snuff Bottle Society. They did all sorts of business, which the ICSBS did not condone.

   I was a member of the Kaynes-Klitz society from 1971 to 1976, and enjoyed the camaraderie of meeting fellow collectors when I traveled, hosting fellow collectors when they visited Israel, and, yes, buying stuff that Kaynes-Klitz was selling.  Wink Grin 

   Besides getting a connection to Y.F.Yang, who gave substantial support to, and sold through, the HK Society,  I bought one of the modern porcelain 'Society mascot' bottles of Li Tiekai ['Iron Crutch Li' in Mike Kaynes-Klitz' inimitable prose], as well as the 'Nixon-Mao' commemorative bottle, the Pat Nixon Camellia bottle, and other assorted 'treasures'. In my defence, I was under 18...  Shocked Roll Eyes Cheesy

   Then I joined the ICSBS in 1974, though I did not attend a convention till 1978 in Hong Kong (In 1974, my parents would not let me skip a week of my last year of high school to go to London UK, and in 1975, 1976, and 1977, the Israeli Army felt that my first obligation was to my compulsory military service; I felt that very unfair, on the part of both 'higher powers', but what could I do?   Roll Eyes Grin
 
   The ICSBS is much more scholarly, at least in its lectures and published articles in the Journal and in magazines; though we have great social connections as well. Rick, Charll, Tom, Jo, Richard, YT,  and Peter, of the Forum members, are all now, or were at one time,  members of the Society.

   Anyway, Welcome again to the Forum. And you might want to consider joining the ICSBS, as well. This year's convention is in London UK, again (Previous times were 1974, when I missed it; 1987; and 1999. I attended both subsequent ones, and they were great, as all of the conventions have been  - out of the  43 conventions held since I joined, I have attended 34.

   I missed the first 4 (1974-1977) due to 'parental' or 'loco parentis' authority (and BOTH my parents and the Army brass said I drove them 'loco', with requests to attend snuff bottle conventions! ). I subsequently missed 5 more; 2 due to being in mourning for a parent (1997 & 2004), one due to my late mom needing me to help her deal with treatments (2002), and two due to conflicts with my Religious obligations (1995 & 2005).
 
   But I've loved all the ones I've attended.

Best,
Joey

   



George and Samson, thanks for your kind replies regarding this bottle!  Pat, I agree with you as well, that the one side of the bottle looks identical to yours!  I love the subject matter as the child in the foreground appears to jump off the bottle. And I like the natural scene on your bottle too. Your timeline appears correct as according to my grandmother's records, this bottle was purchased from Michael Kaynes in 1980, and she called it a modern bottle.  My grandfather was a geologist and often sent mineral specimens to Mr. Kaynes which he had made into bottles for my grandmother's collection.  Sometimes they would also buy bottles from him, too, as they were early members of the ICSBS.

Well, Happy New Year!


Rheuben
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Rube
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 11:59:06 am »

Dear Joey,

Thanks for your response regarding the bottles, and for clarifying the society in which Michael Kaynes founded.  As it turns out my grandparents were members of his society, in the early seventies, so I stand corrected, and that must have been how they became associated.  They may have also joined the ICSBS later, but I'd have to delve deeper into their records.  I know my late mother joined and attended at least one conference in Florida in the late 90's.  I'm considering joining as well.

Thank you also for your greeting to this fantastic forum, and all your contributions.

Cheers,


Rheuben.

ps- it certainly seems like a very small world, the snuff bottle community...  As I'm going thru records, my grandmother referenced visiting Mr. O'Dell's house during a snuff bottle convention in Washington D.C. and I also think they bought some bottles from Mr. Yang!
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Joey
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 04:46:04 pm »

Dear Rheuben,

      WOW! It IS a small world!
I consider Y.F. Yang, my 'Rabbi' on snuff bottles (in Chinese Art & SB terms, my Master and Teacher  Wink).
He is a wonderful man, and still alive and active. I spent a few hours with him in the apt. of his son Ernest, while visiting Honolulu in early November (right after the ICSBS LA convention).
 
    Your late mother would have attended the 1997 Palm Beach FL convention of the ICSBS, which I missed due to being in mourning for my late father.

    Your late grandmother would probably have attended the 1975 convention in Washington DC (I missed that one too - I was busy wrecking a tank in tank driver training, due to an honest mistake by a higher officer - he thought I could obey commands I didn't understand, due to a lack of knowledge of Hebrew military slang on my part!  Shocked Roll Eyes Cheesy). The next Washington DC convention, which I DID attend, was in 2000.

    It is really amazing how small the 'snuff bottle collecting world' is.
When your grandmother was in China in the 1920s, did she mention in her journal meeting 2 expat Americans there,  Margaret Prescott or Edgar Wise? They then married (1927) and she became Margaret Prescott Wise.
They were 2 more who bridged the period from the 1920s to the 1980s as snuff bottle collectors.

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


pic=3442.msg46664#msg46664 date=1488218346]
Dear Joey,

Thanks for your response regarding the bottles, and for clarifying the society in which Michael Kaynes founded.  As it turns out my grandparents were members of his society, in the early seventies, so I stand corrected, and that must have been how they became associated.  They may have also joined the ICSBS later, but I'd have to delve deeper into their records.  I know my late mother joined and attended at least one conference in Florida in the late 90's.  I'm considering joining as well.

Thank you also for your greeting to this fantastic forum, and all your contributions.

Cheers,


Rheuben.

ps- it certainly seems like a very small world, the snuff bottle community...  As I'm going thru records, my grandmother referenced visiting Mr. O'Dell's house during a snuff bottle convention in Washington D.C. and I also think they bought some bottles from Mr. Yang!
[/quote]
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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