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October 22, 2017, 03:48:27 pm
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Ye bottle?

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Author Topic: Ye bottle?  (Read 668 times)
Rube
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« on: February 24, 2017, 07:18:25 am »

Greetings,

I'm posting a few pics of the bottle which led me to your forum.  I, like many of you, have read the Lilla S. Perry book, and used it to try and find out the artist of this bottle.  When I thought I found the match, I googled the name and that's  how I happened upon y'all.  I'm curious if I am correct in assuming that it is a Ye Family or Elder bottle?  And, I'm wondering if
someone can help me with the translation also? 

Happy Friday,


Rheuben


* FullSizeRender-1.jpg (24.29 KB, 240x320 - viewed 43 times.)

* FullSizeRender-2.jpg (19.89 KB, 320x240 - viewed 16 times.)

* FullSizeRender-3.jpg (23.93 KB, 320x240 - viewed 11 times.)

* FullSizeRender-4.jpg (22.43 KB, 240x320 - viewed 10 times.)

* FullSizeRender.jpg (31.9 KB, 240x320 - viewed 28 times.)
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George
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 07:27:01 am »

Yes indeed Rheuben, and a beauty too !

You may need to take a couple closer pics for the scripts for one of our Chinese members to translate for you..

Congratulations on a wonderful bottle Smiley
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AntPeople
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 09:42:05 am »

Hi Rheuben

Very nice bottle... and not a theme that YZS always paint.....I have a much smaller bottle that has only a fraction of the scene painted as compared to yours... just the old lady, the little girl and a woman...

The bottle is from Chapter 2 of the Story of the Red Mansion .... 第二章 贾母惜孤女...... (Chapter 2 : Mother Jia (a surname) showing love and concern to the orphan girl).... the orphan girl will be the most famous character in this Chinese classic, her name is 林黛玉, Lin Dai Yu

I can't figure out all the words as the picture is not that clear... but can see these 4 words on it 母惜孤女

Pin
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 09:58:05 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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Rube
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 11:29:08 am »

George and Pin,

Thanks for your comments regarding this bottle. I'm attaching some more pics that hopefully will clarify the calligraphy.
Cheers,

Rheuben


* IMG_8849.JPG (29.23 KB, 320x240 - viewed 22 times.)

* IMG_8850.JPG (25.51 KB, 320x240 - viewed 15 times.)
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 08:59:05 am »

This is what's on the first picture... which is Chapter 2 of the Romance of the red mansion.

接外孙贾母惜孤女
己已秋月
葉仲三作

Adopting her niece, Mother Jia showing empathy and concern to this orphan girl
Autumn month in the year of the earth snake (1889)
Painted by Ye Zhong San

The 2nd Picture says

刘姥姥一进荣国府

Old lady Liu first visit to the RongGuo mansion....Another chapter in the book.

Pin
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:24:51 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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Rube
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 09:20:06 am »

Pin,

YAY for the translation on this Ye bottle!  I'm so excited to know the story.
If I were to try and catalog this bottle for my records, would you consider it square shape with rounded corners? it is
2 3/4" tall.  I keep seeing references to the Bob Stevens book so I think I shall order it.

Thanks again for your assistance regarding this bottle, it was one from my grandmother's collection.

Cheers,


Rheuben.

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 09:28:57 am »

You are welcome..... a really nice bottle

As for how to classify your bottle... Joey and the rest will probably be better to advise you..

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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Rube
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 04:55:22 am »

Pin,

I've been photographing my bottles and I took some more of this one.  After looking at the Bob Stevens book and using his cyclical dating table in the back of the book, I'm wondering if this date shouldn't actually be 1929 instead of 1889?

Cheers,
Rube.


* FullSizeRender Ye Family 1.jpg (90.21 KB, 480x640 - viewed 11 times.)

* FullSizeRender Ye Family 2.jpg (107.91 KB, 480x640 - viewed 12 times.)

* FullSizeRender Ye Family 3.jpg (79.18 KB, 480x640 - viewed 7 times.)
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 05:06:48 am »

Hi Rube

Definitely NOT 1889.  Ye the elder had just started painting at that time, and I doubt he could produce this at that time (not in terms of skills, but he was still following Zhou Le Yuan style and had not yet developed his distinctive style like this.   

Furthermore, Chinese cyclical dates run in 60 years, so this would be a 1949 bottle, and by one of the surviving sons.  The bottle style is also not from the late 1880s. This style became popular later.  BUT - A beautiful bottle!! 


Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 07:48:54 am by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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Rube
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 05:15:48 am »

Pat,

Thanks for your reply.  Am I off in thinking it says 1929?  After all, that was the year my grandmother bought this bottle.
Cheers,
Rube.
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 05:25:51 am »

Rube

Well, that creates an enigma.  If Pin was correct on the date, then it has to either 1889 or 1949.  I can not read the date well, but it indeed looks like Yi Si (1929) instead of Yi Chou (1889).   But 1889 is very early for Ye to produce this type of bottle, and so well executed.   Another Chinese reading member to confirm for us, but yes, 1929 seems right to me.
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 05:41:48 am »

Thanks Pat, that's kind of what I was thinking.  If that were the case, it's kind of neat to think she bought it as a relatively brand new bottle, Autumn Month, because she bought in December of that year.

Cheers,
Rube.
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 07:18:25 am »

Yes Pat... it's 1929.... the earth Snake year

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 08:04:17 am »

Thanks Pin,

That's what I thought.

Cheers,
Rube.
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Rube, 4th Generation Collector

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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2017, 06:45:50 am »

Dear Rube,

      Somehow I missed this thread before.
In 2015, I bought a bottle from Clare Chu, which was signed Ye Zhongsan like this one, from YZS the Elder, dated 1926 that was bought in 1926 by a Jewish collector from Chicago. His family owned it till July 2015, when Clare's Asian Art Studio bought it; and I bought it in Oct. 2015.

    It's wonderful that you have a bottle that has been in your family since a few months after it was painted. And a very fine example, as well.
Best,
Joey
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Rube
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2017, 07:15:55 am »

Thanks Joey,
And thanks to your dating my Yong Shou Tien bottle a few weeks ago, did I try to actually "practice" dating on this bottle and realized it was probably 1929.

Cheers,
Rube
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2017, 08:41:02 am »

Dear Rube,

     That's great!
The cyclical dates are not that hard - there are 10 characters on the right side, which are each reproduced 6 times; and 12 characters on the left side, which are each reproduced 5 times. And by and large, one can easily differentiate the characters from each other (the 'ding' looks like a 'T'; the 'yi' looks like a 'Z'; the 'jia' looks like a 'plus sign' in a box on top of a stick; etc. incidentally, these are a few of the memnonics tricks I use to remember; though with Ding, I also simply remember how to write 'Ding Erzhong'  Grin).
Best,
Joey
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