Click On Globe To View Forum Visitors From Around The World

General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Rube shared this really nice Yan Yutian bottle


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
December 13, 2018, 05:30:38 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Shou symbols over clear glass.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Shou symbols over clear glass.  (Read 201 times)
forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 733


« on: February 21, 2017, 04:34:52 am »

I put a picture of this bottle in a photography topic but wanted to raise some questions with it about ageing overlay bottles.

Repeated Shou symbols in black overlay over clear glass. The overlay has been taken back to be so thin that in places it has gone a little too far meaning it feels quite different to hold compared to my other overlay bottles, very smooth. As the working of overlays is a way of telling age then is this a sign of an older bottle ?

Inn Bok recently posted a collection of modern overlays, one of which was clear glass with the inside ground as if prepared for inside painting. I queried whether this may have been done to make the overlay design stand out more.

Would a clear glass base mean the bottle would have been made in the true snuff period because without snuff inside the bottle the design of the reverse side is noticeable through the bottle and confuses the design? There has been some discussion about clear crystal bottles looking better with snuff inside and if they are carved in low relief I assume it helps more.

Regards, Adrian

 



* P1010464.jpg (52.59 KB, 327x480 - viewed 20 times.)

* P1010465.jpg (47.39 KB, 311x480 - viewed 15 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10547



WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 04:12:14 am »

Adrian..

Do you have a copy of The Art of the Chinese Snuff Bottle, the J and J Collection ?

I lost my reading glasses yesterday, so to difficult to read and type page 647. It talks about these thin layered overlays.
Report Spam   Logged

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 733


« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 08:17:42 am »

Hi George,

I was starting to think I may have to reply to myself  Smiley

It's not a book that's made it into my growing collection as yet. I don't want to trouble you but if you get a chance to relay any info I'd appreciate it but I will see what I can find out as well.

Any thoughts reference clear glass dating or am I raising something that is a given or just daft ?

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10547



WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 08:32:03 am »

I took a pic of the part that is relevant to the thin layers..


* adrian.jpg (350.32 KB, 981x561 - viewed 15 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 733


« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 09:38:02 am »

Thanks George.

I had just found a similar shaped clear bottle in the Crane collection with very thin overlay which was stated as 1820-40 and Yangzhou, although with an artists seal hence the close dating.

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10547



WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2017, 04:12:21 pm »

Sorry, I should have included another pic..

They date it 1800-1850 and Yangzhou.

I do not have an answer regarding your clear glass question..

By the way... Beautiful bottle !


* adrian1.jpg (190.42 KB, 715x606 - viewed 10 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3400


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 10:18:00 pm »

Adrian

Yes, I think the clear bottles were made on purpose to let the contents stand out.
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 733


« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 10:36:59 am »

I think this may do as a good match especially the rendering of the shou symbols which can have slight differences in their design.


* P2260511.jpg (91.62 KB, 543x600 - viewed 11 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9035


« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 04:00:13 pm »

Dear Adrian,
 
     It certainly looks 'right' to me. I would date it  ca.1800-1860, though it could certainly be 20 years earlier (ca.1780-1860).

     But, even though it is low relief, I'd hesitate to call it Yangzhou work, since I know of no Yangzhou bottles on clear glass. They are almost always on milk glass flattened flasks, though a few rare examples are known on opaque brown glass, etc. The foot actually reminds me more of glass from Boshan (like the Shandong bottles from Bi Rongjiu with thin overlays accentuating the inside painted panels, the footrim, and the neck's rim, as well.

    Incidentally, well photographed.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 733


« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 04:19:50 am »

Dear Joey,

My feeling of Yangzhou bottles is they are very different to mine in their subject matter so there is no connection there even without mine being on clear glass. But I wonder where the inspiration came from to go so thin on the overlay, it isn't seen very often from what I can see. Was it just a brief anomaly that came in for a short period in one workshop ?

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 9035


« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 09:33:07 am »

Dear Adrian,

    I agree with you - no stylistic or material relationship with the Yangzhou type.

    Look at Bi Rongjiu bottles with thin overlay on clear. But this group could have influenced those, since I  think it is earlier. But Steven and Pat have been discussing the possibility that the Shandong School is earlier than we thought (Till now, it has been thought to date from the 1890s).
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal