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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 25, 2017, 05:27:00 am
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Crystal Bottle with Citrine Inclusion

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Author Topic: Crystal Bottle with Citrine Inclusion  (Read 359 times)
samsonlzj
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2017, 10:55:49 pm »

Dear Joey and Pat,

Let me try to solve the doubt here.. In my opinion, some characters' present simplified form did exist well before the PRC period, but they were not recognized as the official form, they could have been used as a cursive form of the characters in calligraphy. Of course many characters are deliberately and systematically simplified during PRC time. So it all comes to which sets of characters we are referring to... I'm unable to provide examples here, I think a person with deeper knowledge and skills in Chinese calligraphy would be in a better position to tell and distinguish.

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Samson
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Wattana
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2017, 11:21:02 pm »

Dear Samson,

I find your explanation more than adequate for an "illiterate Westerner" like myself. Parallels of what you describe can be found in many languages.  

Thank you!

Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 08:38:21 pm »

Dear Tom,

In the bottle posted, the six Chinese characters as pointed out by Richard are 满船明月江彩寒.

However, the third word 明 (ming) and the sixth 彩 (cai) are written in ' Running ' script while the rest are in
the ' Standard ' script. In this case, the artist chooses not to use Standard Script for all 6 characters and the reasons could be one or a combination of the following :

1. he wants to break the monotony of the calligraphy presentation. It can be boring if all 6 words are in Standard script,
2. he does not know the Running script for the other characters. Unlike the past, not all Chinese who know how to write necessarily know how to write in all the six forms of calligraphy. I am one of these present-day Chinese who knows how to write in Standard script because I was not trained and did not learn how to write in the other forms. However, through experience and self-learning, I can interprete some of the other forms when looking at a scroll of calligraphy.

As for the Form of writing, it is not right to say that all Chinese words are either in the traditional
' Complex 'Form ( 繁体 ) or ' Simplified ' Form ( 简体 ). There are still many words not simplified, or feasible to simplify. For instance, my family name ' 黄 ( huang ) has not been simplified for whatever reasons. Whereas Richard's family name ' 马 ' (ma) has a Simplified form. Both Richard and I learnt Chinese in the Complex form at school but we , out of necessity, learn the simplified form when the Singapore government decided to adopt the Simplified form of Chinese for all the local print media. Whereas, many printed materials in Hong Kong and Taiwan are still using Complex Forms for those Chinese characters that have been simplified by mainland China. For political reason, perhaps !

Incidentally, in the bottle posted. All the words in standard script are in the traditional Complex Form. Even the first character 满  (man) is in traditional Complex Form when it has the Simplified Form as appeared in my post. You notice on the bottle, the word 满 actually has two ' 口 ' instead of ' 人 '. That could possibly, but not necessarily, suggest to me that the carver does not know the Simplified Form and so the work is not a modern work.

I will discuss on Hanyu Pinyin in later posts.

Inn Bok
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Wattana
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 09:11:01 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,

Thank you for your in-depth analysis of the nuances of the different forms of script in Chinese! It is difficult for a Westerner not trained in Chinese to grasp, but your explanation is much appreciated.

Tom   
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Joey
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2017, 06:21:47 pm »

Dear Inn Bok,

      I agree with Tom. Thank you!
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 11:50:46 pm »

Thank you Tom and Joey.

As for Hanyu Pinyin, it concerns the official pronunciation of Chinese characters. This system of pronouncing Chinese words have been adopted by Singapore and Malaysia for decades. Our children and grandchildren are all trained to pronounced according to Hanyu Pinyin. Some Chinese folks also use Hanyu Pinyin to register the English version of their Chinese name ( the flip side is when I read their Hanyu Pinyin name, I cannot guess which dialect group they belong to ).

Communicating with folks in  via social media requires us to use Hanyu Pinyin to get the Chinese words for the text. However, in spoken Chinese, the four tones in our pronunciation adds to the complication... which I do not want to bore you  Cheesy Cheesy

Inn Bok
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Joey
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 06:53:12 am »

Dear Inn Bok,

     Yes, the 'ma', 'ma', 'ma', 'ma', 'ma' conundrum:
One intonation means 'horse'.
Another means 'scold'.
Yet another means, 'hemp'.
And another means 'mother'.
And 'ma'? in the 1/2 tone, is part of a question.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2017, 08:29:14 pm »

Hi  Inn  Bok,

When you  say "Hanyu  Pinyin"  do  you mean  the  standard  Pinyin as  used  in PRC ?

Cheers
Peter
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