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October 21, 2017, 12:40:11 pm
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Crystal Bottle with Citrine Inclusion

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Question: Q7v7FC
WVcWctmA
StUKBGuIZAO
CXFMpEwALmz
FqkUJTLCmnVG
bqqMmGmbQKc

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Author Topic: Crystal Bottle with Citrine Inclusion  (Read 371 times)
joearp
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« on: February 18, 2017, 12:01:12 pm »

Date of Bottle: 1780 to 1860.

This bottle has a poem on the front right corner. It front is a carved scene with fisherman in a boat as well as the citrine inclusion which I "imagine" being the moon reflection or a big fish ! The back has a winter landscape with bare tree limbs and two people walking.

I am told the Calligraphy is ( pin yin)

Man Chuan Ming Yue Jiang Cai Han
Meaning: The winter is very cold, but today the bright moon lighting the whole boat and making the river look more colorful.

The original poem should be: Man Chuan Ming Yue Jin Xiu Kong by Nan Song Dynasty famous poet Dai Fugu

This bottle is similar to a lovely Crystal and Citrine Bottle on Page 138 in Chinese Snuff Bottles from Southern Californian Collectors by Clare Chu   This is the exhibition catalogue of the bottles on exhibit at LACMA Oct 29,2016 through June 4, 2017


* crystal 1.JPG (429.43 KB, 1139x1614 - viewed 37 times.)

* crystal 2 (2).JPG (582.33 KB, 1355x1920 - viewed 20 times.)

* crystal poem.JPG (484.26 KB, 1707x1918 - viewed 26 times.)

* crystal side.JPG (249.06 KB, 671x1745 - viewed 9 times.)

* crystal base.JPG (364.87 KB, 2256x1141 - viewed 8 times.)
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albert
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 03:22:03 pm »

nice item, thanks for share it!
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2017, 05:28:39 pm »

Hi Jo,
That is a  truly  beautiful bottle !  So  simple and  elegant

SB Health Warning :   looking at  postings like  this  can seriously  damage your  bank account   Grin

Cheers
Peter
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 07:14:14 pm »

Beautiful bottle Jo!

One question about the inscription... did I understand correctly that the calligraphy is in simplified chinese ?  So the inscription was added at a later time ?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 09:46:51 pm by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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Pat
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richy88
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 01:42:17 am »

Hi Jo

Very nice bottle.

It reminds me of my quartz bottle with a citrine inclusion too which I have posted before under this thread #119:

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1750.100.html

Pat, I think Jo includes the poem in Pinyin. The original text is of course Chinese.

Regards.


Richard
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 02:22:46 am by richy88 » Report Spam   Logged

Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2017, 02:18:51 am »

Hi Jo

As you correctly pointed out, the phrase on your bottle was taken from a poem by the Southern Song poet, Dai Fugu (戴复古).

The entire original poem is as follows:

月夜舟中

满船明月浸虚空,绿净无痕夜气冲。
诗思浮沉樯影里,梦魂摇曳橹声中。
星辰冷落碧潭水,鸿雁悲鸣红蓼风。
一点鱼灯依古岸,断桥垂露滴梧桐。

The poem painted a river scene on a cold winter night.

Your bottle inscription was adapted from the first part of the poem, 满船明月江彩寒 and aptly conclude the entire atmosphere of the poem.

For your reference.

Regards.


Richard

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Richard from sunny Singapore
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2017, 08:18:37 am »

Thanks for sharing Jo.
It is a beautiful bottle !

Inn Bok
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George
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2017, 03:48:59 pm »

Beautiful bottle Jo !

I would have guessed a bit older. Say Middle to Late 18th..
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Wattana
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 11:46:58 pm »

Dear Jo,

A very elegant bottle, and with a most appropriate inscription! You didn't say how tall it is.
I would agree with your dating of 1780-1860.

Tom
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joearp
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 07:05:52 am »

Thanks all for your information. Pat- I was noting what I was told about the inscription being in PinYin.  The seller of the bottle had a Chinese Dealer Friend to interpret it and this is all I know, as the seller nor myself read Chinese.  Richard- I am thrilled that you included the information regarding the poem.  There is so much history in the culture and I loved there was reference to an ancient poem on the bottle.  It added to the overall appeal of the bottle to me.  Tom- The bottle without stopper is 58.7 mm.  Again thanks so much for your feedback. 
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 07:07:13 am »

Richard- I forgot to tell you how much I enjoyed seeing your similar bottle. It is a real beauty.  Thanks for adding the link.   
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richy88
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 07:40:56 am »

Thanks Jo!

You are most welcome!


Richard
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 11:18:45 pm »

Dear Jo,
 
     It looks like a fine bottle, and I'd agree with the dating you put forth.
The 'Pinyin' refers to the transliteration into latin letters, NOT the calligraphy (Pat, were you trying to make a joke? Grin).
If your inscription had been in latin letters, it would have been "in Pinyin".
The calligraphy looks to be in Kaishu, or standard script.
Any script or font, should have the suffix '-shu' : Kaishu [standard script], Caoshu [grass script], Zhuanshu [Archaic script, but there are numerous types], Lishu [Clerical {Monumental} script], etc.
Best,
Joey



Thanks all for your information. Pat- I was noting what I was told about the inscription being in PinYin.  The seller of the bottle had a Chinese Dealer Friend to interpret it and this is all I know, as the seller nor myself read Chinese.  Richard- I am thrilled that you included the information regarding the poem.  There is so much history in the culture and I loved there was reference to an ancient poem on the bottle.  It added to the overall appeal of the bottle to me.  Tom- The bottle without stopper is 58.7 mm.  Again thanks so much for your feedback. 
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 11:21:41 pm »

Joey

I meant Simplified Chinese.   Lips sealed
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Pat
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joearp
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 01:32:54 am »

Thanks Joey!
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 07:49:47 am »

Hi Jo,

I really love your bottle. Thank you for posting it!

Regards,

Toni-Lee
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 08:22:45 am »

Glad you like it.  I have so enjoyed the bottles you have posted recently Toni-Lee!
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 09:40:26 pm »

Dear Pat,
 
     Now I'm confused.

      Is the term 'Pinyin' also used to refer to the 'Simplified Characters' the PRC has tried to introduce since the 1950s?
I understood that it referred ONLY to the modern romanisation of Chinese in Latin letters, championed by the PRC;
as opposed to the Wade-Giles romanisation from the mid-late 19th C. by 2 English scholars, Thomas Wade (1850s) and Herbert A. Giles (1892).
Best,
Joey


Joey

I meant Simplified Chinese.   Lips sealed
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 09:46:16 pm »

Joey

No. Let me clarify what I really meant.  I miswrote pinyin but what I wanted to verify whether the inscription was in simplified or traditional Chinese, hence my statement that if so, the inscription was added at a later date to the old bottle.

Sorry for the confusion... I will go correct my post...
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2017, 09:54:05 pm »

Dear Pat,
 
     Now I understand totally. Thank you for the clarification.
That is actually an interesting question.

     I understood that, for incising on stone (like on a snuff bottle or other small object; not on a 'bei' [stele]), there were
simplified characters even 200 years ago.  I honestly don't remember who told me this, so I can't swear to its truth.

     Do any scholars of Chinese, or native speakers, know of simplified characters in such a context before the PRC?
Best,
Joey
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