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December 18, 2017, 02:31:56 pm
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Mottled lapis lazuli

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Author Topic: Mottled lapis lazuli  (Read 432 times)
Fiveroosters
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2017, 01:53:20 am »

Dear Tom,
I think you know that I prefer old bottles, but this last one that you shown us is really impressive. What a nice bottle! Who would say that it is not old if you had not said that it is modern?
Really really nice. Thank you for posting.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2017, 02:26:35 am »

Dear Giovanni,

I find the Mongolian bottles interesting on another level too. In China the snuff taking habit stopped almost immediately after the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1911, to be replaced by cigarette smoking and other social diversions. As a result, the snuff bottle (as a functional item) was dead, extinct. Since then new bottles just mimic or copy earlier styles. Except for inside painted bottles (which aren't functional anyway) they have stopped evolving.

Only in Mongolia, because snuff bottles are still functional objects, the styles kept evolving and developing in new and interesting directions. The stoppers have always been taller there, and popularly made of coral. But now the collars are also decorated, and often the spoons too. The bases have become larger, and are sometimes ornately carved, as on this example. And the themes chosen for the carving are distinctly Mongolian, not at all Chinese.

When I look at these modern Mongolian bottles, I sometimes wonder what new styles would have developed in China over the last 100 years if snuff was still used there.

Regards,
Tom

Regards,
Tom
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 02:48:07 am »

Tom

Just gorgeous ! It puts many old bottles to shame and as Giovanni said , it is hard to dostinguish from some of the finest bottles of the Qing era. Congrats! Personally I am not fond of those top hat style stoppers though..
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 03:05:22 am »

Thanks Pat,

Just to be clear, this last bottle (regrettably) is not mine.   Sad

The nearest I got to it was helping him select the raw lapis from an Afghani dealer here in Bangkok. But in the end he found a better, cheaper chunk elsewhere.
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 08:01:26 am »

Hi Tom,

That's a beautiful snuff bottle your friend has.

There is a U tube video showing a Mongolian snuff bottle maker. Sadly it didn't show him working on any bottles as the translation said he carved them with knives which I would have loved to see.

It said prices could be in 6 figures US$, I assume for old bottles, and the pouches/sleeves they keep them in can cost thousands as well. It also said the coral for the stoppers was getting very expensive. The tall stoppers might be a sort of phallic symbol !

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2017, 09:46:17 pm »

Dear Adrian,

      Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!  Grin Roll Eyes Wink   We had a thread way back, when Tom posted modern Mongolian bottles with those very long stoppers, and I said that the whole bottle looked like that !  Shocked Wink
I think we sort of agreed that it was because they have long fingernails, or something.
Best,
Joey


  The tall stoppers might be a sort of phallic symbol !

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2017, 09:47:55 pm »

Haha, well at least I called it top hat style.... but yes, I agree...
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2017, 09:49:04 pm »

Dear Pat,
 
     OH! Now I get your previous post.
Best,
Joey


Tom

  Personally I am not fond of those too hat style stoppers though..
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2017, 12:14:36 am »

Tom,

Thanks for posting the Mongolian lapis lazuli, an eye opener. Fine execution of the carvings.

Based on Giovanni remark, I can imagine if some dealer were to replace the ' top hat ' stopper with standard old Chinese stopper, he can fool collectors into believing that the bottle is an old work. Especially if the foot of bottle has no additional carving like the fishes you posted.

Incidentally, in the picture you posted, the matrix appears very goldish rather than white or silvery.

I was recently offered by a dealer to consider this LL bottle ( see attached ) which I suggested some $$ he could not accept. He may come again. What's  your view on it ?

Inn Bok


* IMG_4825.JPG (127.74 KB, 392x523 - viewed 12 times.)

* IMG_4826.JPG (119.11 KB, 392x523 - viewed 8 times.)

* IMG_4827.JPG (117.77 KB, 392x523 - viewed 10 times.)

* IMG_4828.JPG (121.23 KB, 441x588 - viewed 10 times.)
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