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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
August 22, 2017, 11:16:56 pm
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Funny things about fakes

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Author Topic: Funny things about fakes  (Read 209 times)
Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« on: February 06, 2017, 06:36:26 am »

Hi All,

In a rare exception to my (new) personal rule to keep to the point and be serious - well reasonably serious ! - even when in the Lounge,  I cannot help but  pick up  on a very funny aspect one of Joey's serious comments on a serious topic (it was about cinnabar bottle)

Joey wrote (edited by me  to bring out the funny part)   :

"Once, I was offered as 18th C.  IP  bottle  by a HK dealer in 1981, for US$1,800!
I was scathing when I found the power station and power lines in the design!" *

This reminded me of the (probably pom-originated) story that the Australian National Art Gallery recently realized that their star  'original' Rembrandt painting was a  fake :

 "... because someone pointed out the kangaroo in the  background"

 Grin

Cheers
Peter

_______________________

* I hasten to point  out that Joey added (seriously, and very correctly)  : "It actually didn't 'click' till later, that it was an extremely rare Cultural Revolution period overlay glass, and even then, easily worth as much as a genuine 18th C. example."

Good work, Joey.
I think that CR bottles will very soon be top collectables, although their style is usually very  ugly.

Check Bill  Patrick's  website for many good examples of CR - IPBs www.snuffbottlecollector.com

Bill told me he  bought  most of his CR bottles from a retired  HK policeman  who bought these  kind of bottles just as an idle  curiosity during the late 1960s  in HK


« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 06:48:36 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 11:00:37 am »

 Peter,
   
      I bought most of my CR IPSBs from the late Robert Kleiner, who sold me a box of 10 different ones as a group. After i bought them, I found out that they'd come from the collection of Michael  & Elizabeth Klitz-Kaynes, the founders of the HK Snuff Bottle Society. They'd bought them in the late 1960s/early 1970s as well...

    Your joke of the Rembrandt with the 'roo  is very funny...
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 12:08:13 pm »

Hi Joey

I could imagine  collecting  CR-era  bottles  as  kind  of  "collector thing"  but I would never  want to display  any  such  bottles  in my  home,  just because they are so  UGLY.

But then,  life in those  times  in China was  so  UGLY ,  so perhaps  there  is  some  inner  beauty (inner  hidden message  /  cry-for-help  ? /  message-in-a-bottle?? ) somewhere  deep inside those  CR  bottles

In which case  I  would  collect them,  and  treasure them, and  display them -  for a purpose

Cheers
Peter

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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 08:03:10 pm »

It is my guess that the value of these CR era painted snuff bottles will go through the roof, especially the ones that can be reasonably attributed to certain masters.   Not only are they quite rare, but they are stark reminders of a dark period in history...
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Pat
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Joey
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 07:33:53 am »

Dear Pat,
 
    You are correct, I think. I have one by Liu Shouben of "The Red Lantern Girl" (A-22 in "Worlds"), but most are not identifiable, at least by me. Even Liu Shouben's bottle.

    The late Agatha Aronson [z"l] of blessed memory had taken 4 copies of "Worlds" with her to China, and gave one each to Wang Xisan, Li Kechang, Liu Shouben, and Zhuang Shuhong, since each had at least a bottle in the catalogue: WXS had 5, ZSH had 2, LKC had 1, while I thought LSB had 1 (A-7). Turned out he had 2, when he recognised my 'Red Lantern Girl' as his own work from the CR.

 Peter,

    Indeed, I bought them for their historical interest; but they are interesting, and quite well painted, some of them.

    Joey
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 07:53:39 am »

Hi All

I  know the  WXS  "red lantern"  bottle.  (Maybe there  was  more than  one  such)

 I  once saw  it pre-auction  in HK at Bonhams :  ugly painting (actually  beautifully  painted, but  ugly  theme)   but  still  "historic"

I can imagine, as  Pat said, that   some day  soon  CR  bottles   will go through the   roof.

I agree  they  have a  dark  and  tragic   background, and  my bookshelves  are  full  of  books  about the  CR (and  my  Kindle  is  even  fuller)

But they  are  still  horribly  UGLY (themes)

Cheers
Peter





« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 08:07:04 pm by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

Joey
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 05:51:20 pm »

    My "Red Lantern Girl" is by Liu Shouben (LSB), not Wang Xisan. And it is beautifully painted.
And the bottle with the soldier trying to stop the horse from pulling the cannon into a gorge is also well painted. Actually, many of them are well painted.

   
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 08:02:39 pm »

Hi Joey

I  immediately deleted what I wrote about money / speculation  and  "buy  X's  collection".

You were  quite right  to  pull me  up on that.   Thanks

Sincere apologies to all .... mea  culpa

 Sad

Cheers
Peter

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Joey
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 01:54:05 am »

I've deleted my comment as well.
Apology accepted on this (at least by me). "Go and sin no more". Roll Eyes Wink



Hi Joey

I  immediately deleted what I wrote about money / speculation  and  "buy  X's  collection".

You were  quite right  to  pull me  up on that.   Thanks

Sincere apologies to all .... mea  culpa

 Sad

Cheers
Peter


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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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