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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
January 23, 2018, 07:41:32 am
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Old cinnabar snuff bottle?

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Author Topic: Old cinnabar snuff bottle?  (Read 1128 times)
Steven
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2017, 05:22:49 pm »

Dear Adrain,

I agree with the Joey and you that its a modern cinnabar bottle.

But I suspected the cinnabar bottle was not made the tradition way by applying the lacquer hundreds of layers, I was heard that there is some faster process the make the cinnabar bottle, but it lacks the detail of the layers. also how the bottle was carved certainly modern compared the old one shared at the top of the thread.

Just my thoughts.

Best,

Steven
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 05:46:09 pm by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

forestman
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 02:07:25 am »

Dear Joey,

I have a bag of flour in my kitchen that will become an antique before the bottle does. I have to question your dating of my bottle as I had it becoming an antique at the latest in December 2015, the carving of the Peacock is pre 2016 in my opinion  Smiley

I don't have the book you mentioned but have a growing collection in all areas of Japanese art and as yet have never seen any reference to the Japanese making snuff bottles although they made some very high quality ones.

Dear Stephen,

Yes the carving is more modern, more 2 dimensional in the majority of cuts being straight down and the subject matter is certainly a big step away from anything traditional.

It is sad to see the levels of craftsmanship and quality of materials slipping over time but it should make us value the original items more.

Regards, Adrian 
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Joey
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 03:38:30 pm »

Dear Adrian,

     I don't know about your bag of flour, but in 2117, that bottle will DEFINITELY be an antique (over 100 years old).  Roll Eyes Grin

     Personally, I like the modern style of the bottle. The carver did not try to fake it being antique in 2017.

    I have a Taisho period (ca.1910-1935 Japanese Art Deco) Cinnabar Lacquer (on porcelain) dish about 15-18 cm in diameter, carved with one open chrysanthemum flower covering almost the whole face of the dish. I bought it at an antique fair in La Spezia Italy while visiting fellow SB collectors there in the company of Giovanni in 2014.  It is also quite 2 dimensional in some aspects, but no less pleasing for that.

    I will check if I can get you Ed Lewis' catalogue. His collection of Inros, Suzuribakos, and especially works by Shibata Zeshin (18071891), is amazing.  I personally own 4 album leaves of lacquer on paper by Zeshin, mounted as scrolls; and a scroll painting in ink on paper by him,  of a crane, as well.

Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 01:41:52 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2017, 05:21:01 am »

Dear Joey,

There was a typo in my post as it should have been December 2116 not 2016.

I have a book on the Brozman collection of Inro which was considered to be one of the best and Zeshin was a favoured artist of his and mine as I admire anyone who pushes design to bring in new techniques so I am very jealous to hear you have some of Zeshin's paintings as he was a highly accomplished artist as well as lacquerer. He started to learn lacquering when he was eleven so had a bit of time to develop his techniques. I will watch out for the Ed Lewis' catalogue as it sounds interesting.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2017, 01:45:28 pm »

Dear Adrian,
 
     If you come visiting in Ireland, I can show you my 3 Zeshins there, and I believe I have a copy of Ed Lewis' catalogue there, as well.  There is also a great catalogue of Zeshin's works, The Art of SHIBATA ZESHIN, 1979, Honolulu Academy of Arts [HAA]; now rebranded the Honolulu Museum of Art [HoMA].
Best,
Joey



Dear Joey,

There was a typo in my post as it should have been December 2116 not 2016.

I have a book on the Brozman collection of Inro which was considered to be one of the best and Zeshin was a favoured artist of his and mine as I admire anyone who pushes design to bring in new techniques so I am very jealous to hear you have some of Zeshin's paintings as he was a highly accomplished artist as well as lacquerer. He started to learn lacquering when he was eleven so had a bit of time to develop his techniques. I will watch out for the Ed Lewis' catalogue as it sounds interesting.

Regards, Adrian.
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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