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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
April 20, 2024, 09:09:53 am
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Old cinnabar snuff bottle?

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forestman
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« on: February 05, 2017, 05:19:55 pm »

Dear Joey,

At the risk of having George cancel my membership here with immediate effect I would say that if I was told I could collect only one thing then I would choose Japanese lacquer over snuff bottles.

When I looked at Elisha's bottle it just seemed wrong to me even before I noted that the brass top to the collar didn't extend into the bottle (effectively a brass disc mimicing a brass bodied bottle). A brass bodied cinnabar bottle has a brass lip (which is connected to the brass body as in a Cloisonne bottle) although it doesn't need one. Lacquered boxes, Inro etc have lacquer resting on lacquer, it's a very resilient material and doesn't need a brass on brass contact between the collar top and stopper bottom to protect it. There are very high quality cinnabar bottles that have a pure lacquered outer surface to show as much, lacquer on lacquer where stopper bottom meets bottle top and lacquer covering the base (thought to be on a wooden body).

If you compare the surface lustre of Elisha's bottle to examples from Bonhams etc there is a difference (I have provided a link to a Bonhams bottle, you can click on the main picture to enlarge it to very high detail and links from there to other cinnabar bottles for more comparison). The surface on those bottles have a duller sense to them than Elisha's bottle.

The first two detail pictures I added show enlargements of her bottle showing where there are distinct changes between shiny to non-shiny areas. If the surface of her bottle had been polished (and I would say it would have to have been to show that much shine if it was real lacquer) then why didn't the polishing extend into the areas I highlighted ? Those un-shiny areas are also too dull to be unpolished real lacquer.

I would happily polish the surface of ivory with a rotory tool. I wouldn't go near a cinnabar lacquered item with one. There are some cinnabar bottles and Inro that could take a light polish to their flatter areas, but it would be a gentle buff with say charcoal dust on a wettened cloth which wouldn't reach into deeper areas of the carving. Any sharp point on the carving that could snag a polishing cloth could be damaged on lacquer.

Then there are the bubbles and voids which do not occur when you paint lacquer on.

It is very hard to tell from pictures and any real opinion would best be reserved until a bottle is in hand but I have enlarged the pictures of Elisha's bottle and given them some attention because I still have a sense it may be carved not molded.

I would be far happier for Elisha's sake if it is real cinnabar lacquer  Smiley

I have a multi layered puzzle ball although sadly showing some damage now.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19621/lot/46/

Kindest regards, Adrian.


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