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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 15, 2018, 05:09:50 pm
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5 Roosters Porcelain Overglaze Red Snuff Bottle

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Author Topic: 5 Roosters Porcelain Overglaze Red Snuff Bottle  (Read 203 times)
pookles
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« on: February 04, 2017, 04:47:59 am »

Dear members,

I bought this one on a whim and it seemed appropriate! What are your views on the age of this bottle and do you know what the mark on the foot reads?

Thanks for any help…




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Luke

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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 07:08:11 am »

Hi Luke

The mark is QianLong Year ..... but I think is a rubber stamped mark.

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 08:30:09 am »

Dear Luke,
Pin is right, and I think that the roosters too, if it is not matter of picture, are stamped.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 11:22:02 am »

Dear Luke,

      I agree with Giovanni.
But it is appropriate to the Year of the Fire Rooster.
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 02:19:56 pm »

Nice bottle.. I think Early 20th and thank you for sharing it Smiley
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pookles
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 03:54:29 am »

Thanks guys and girls. I really appreciate the advice and info I receive on this forum. It is really beneficial to me. I always try and examine/research, so hope you don't mind a few questions.

Hi Pin,

Thanks for letting me know what the mark is referring to. Do you know the exact reading of the mark? Does it read "Made In the QianLong Era" or maybe something like "of the period...."? Looks like a really messy mark to me Smiley

Dear Pin, Giovanni & Joey,

You all agree the mark is stamped. How can you tell? Also, this mark is in seal script?

Also, regarding the roosters being stamped. I thought they were hand painted, but the overglaze red was rubbed and scratched maybe from handling and use. I can't see any signs of small dotting from a transfer, but if made from a stamp I guess it would make sense that it would leave splotchy areas where the illustration didn't transfer evenly.  I've attached a couple of extra pics to try and show more detail. Do the roosters in your views also looked stamped?


George - yeah that was roughly my thinking too. I wonder when the Chinese started using stamps in the production of porcelain snuff bottles? I'd imagine they would have started stamping the mark in perhaps mass production sooner than using stamps or transfer methods on the body of the bottle.


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« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 03:56:15 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

Luke
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 08:16:06 am »

Dear Luke,
thank you for the detailed images. I said that the roosters too, if not matter of images, did look stamped. Now I see that they are hand painted, it was the even wear that give the bad appearance.
Instead, there is no doubt that the mark is stamped. They did start to use stamped marks on porcelain in the second half of the 19th century, about 1875. It is very easy to see that it is stamped, look in particular where the stokes are crossing. You will see that the crossing point is somehow blurred, you don’t see the superposing strokes.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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pookles
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 05:49:15 am »

Dear Giovanni,

thanks for clarifying that the roosters are hand painted. It's something I find I have trouble with especially from photos on the internet, which is where I got this bottle from.

Next time I'll try and post a more interesting bottle as this is one is very simple...
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 07:02:06 am »

Dear Luke,

    If you read the reign mark as they would in China, you start with the top right-hand character, then the bottom right-hand one, the top left-hand one and finally the bottom left-hand one.

    The 'Qian' character is really badly snarled up, but the four characters are: 'Qian Long Nian Zhi'
or "Qianlong year [period] made".

   I was glad to hear that Giovanni agrees the roosters are hand-painted; that is much better, though the stamped mark lets it down a lot.

   The Chinese have been using stamps for at least 2,000 years; on porcelain bottles? I'd reckon from after the start of steamship-based Western 'mass' tourism to China, ca. 1870s. Such stamps would NEVER have fooled Chinese buyers, so they must have been introduced to fool Western buyers.
Personally, in 47 years of collecting, I don't believe I've ever seen bottles with stamped (as opposed to obviously wrong, but hand-painted 'apocryphal' marks) that could be dated earlier than the Guangxu reign (1874-1908).

   Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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