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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
April 19, 2018, 12:08:50 pm
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Barely translucent purple glass with goldstone flecks.

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Author Topic: Barely translucent purple glass with goldstone flecks.  (Read 472 times)
forestman
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« on: January 16, 2017, 03:09:21 pm »

This bottle appears black, even if held up to a window, and only reveals itself as purple with the use of a very strong direct light which I haven't been able to capture yet.

Most that I have seen are a deep blue. I know Wang Shizhen wrote in 1705 of purple being one of the colours in use at the time but it is a less usual colour to find.

Any clues from bottle shape etc to help with dating it.

Height is 64mm without stopper and the neck opening is 10mm which is quite large.

Regards, Adrian.


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cshapiro
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 03:32:39 pm »

Dear Adrian, thank you for getting down to SSBS! I do love your stories though and hope to be treated to more of them. I will also be interested in seeing what others have to say about this too, because I also have a purple gold flecked bottle - although the purple in mine is much more obvious.


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Cathy
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 03:51:25 pm »

Hi Cathy,

The purple I see in yours is as much as I get by holding an led head torch against the glass.

Clearly the price of goldstone was far higher when they made yours.

Regards, Adrian.
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forestman
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 04:38:12 pm »

I bought the goldstone flecked bottle as part of a lot at auction which were from the same collection and they clearly had a liking for a bit of bling as these other 3 came in the same lot. The middle bottle has a concave opening which I've read somewhere here helps ageing as it was there to allow some turns of thread under the stopper to help seal the bottle.

The stopper for the middle bottle has a coral inset which is not obvious in the picture, I used white balance under artificial light but the colour is off as it's a good pink, fading to a yellowy white in it's centre. I also think the gold coloured band around the stopper might actually be gold.

Another bottle in the lot was a nice (to me) glass imitating agate.

Regards, Adrian.


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Fiveroosters
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 05:26:13 pm »

Dear Adrian and Cathy,
both your bottles are new in my opinion. Both them shows the surface texture that I see in new bottles. I am referring to the type of polishing.
Dear Adrian, besides that, the shape of your bottle is unsuccessfully imitating the shape of old bottles.
About the pictures, it is normal that digital cameras do not reproduce the purplish blue. There is a filter embedded in the sensor to stop the ultraviolet light, because in lack of that your blue sweater will turn out purplish in pictures taken in sunny days on high mountains.
I don’t understand what you said about the color not turning out correct under artificial light after doing the white balance. If that happens, it means that the white balance procedure has not been performed correctly.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 03:27:48 pm »

Haha Adrian - yes my gold splashes are sparce compared to yours and it's probably a much inferior bottle.
But purple with gold splashes? What girl could resist!

Just postulating but think that members could help you more with these if the pictures were better. Perhaps you could try again? I am certainly no photography expert but find that I get the best pictures in natural light.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 03:30:57 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 03:46:11 pm »

Dear Cathy,
"I will also be interested in seeing what others have to say about this too": it seems that at least one of the others said something but you ignored that.
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 05:40:00 pm »

Sorry Giovanni I don't understand? Huh 
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Cathy
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 12:44:11 am »

Dear Cathy,
you did ask the opinion of others about your bottle, right? In my first post here above I said: “Dear Adrian and Cathy, both your bottles are new in my opinion”. So I gave my opinion. May be you did not read that, because you ignored it completely.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 12:56:13 pm »

Very sorry if it appeared that way Giovanni - I just thought it was a given that mine especially was modern. I was suggesting Adrian take better pictures of his other two bottles if he wanted opinions on them.
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Cathy
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 01:22:10 pm »

Dear Cathy,
no problem, what I am finding very odd in this thread is the lack of participation, nobody have commented after my post, so I am wondering if I have been too abrupt. I think that both bottles are modern for what I can see in the pictures and I said that. It is strange that nobody commented further, also because, if old, this is a very sought after type of bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Joey
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2017, 01:54:43 pm »

Guys,

    I think Adrian's purple & goldstone looks modern; Cathy's is hard to tell, but might be 19th C. (I'd need to see the taotie to make a decision), and of the trio, the right most flask looks mid-late 19th C. to me.

     The indentation can be 'a sign of age' (my forgetfulness occasionally, is 'a sign of ageing'), and was to accommodate a single silk thread dipped in wax, which would be wrapped around the cork where it met the stopper. When the owner pressed the stopper firmly against the bottle, it would make the wax melt and immediately re-harden, forming an airtight seal, till it was next opened.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

forestman
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2017, 03:21:51 pm »

Hi Cathy,

You only have to look at Donald Trump's apartment to see that going overboard with gold isn't a measure of good taste or a good bottle. I won't be taking pictures under that artificial light again as it does no favours to the bottles.

Hi Joey,

I recall your explanation of indentations from another post, I've read so many recently I couldn't recall where it was so thank you for repeating it here again. Does it help age the bottle for you to narrow down some dates. The stopper for that bottle suggests someone valued it.

Hi Giovanni,

It did seem that the thread was left alone and I accept the blame as the person placing the post and not replying to you. I have recently had 3 new books delivered and I read your post and went back to my books to look at bottle shapes to answer you but it only added to my confusion in dating the bottle and my pictures didn't show the bottle at it's best. I see flaired necks in older bottles and I see the shape ( not a favourite) in older bottles, I've yet to see them combined !

I'm used to old style photography, matching colour temperature of light sources to film types, that was real photography.

Regards all, Adrian.

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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2017, 04:51:16 pm »

Dear Adrian,
no need at all to apologize! I was referring to the lack of comments from others. And, I too am missing those old film times! My Nikon F cameras are sadly in a drawer.
Coming back to the bottles discussed here, I agree with Joey about the three bottles. I believe that there are great chances that all three are old bottles. Instead, look carefully at the shape of your first bottle and compare with similar shaped old bottles. The difference is evident, the old ones are much more elegant.
But I don’t agree with Joey about Cathy’s bottle. Dear Joey, look at the area in the big light spot, at about 10 o’clock of the body. You can see there that the grinding is not accurate, quite sloppy; the round body is almost faceted instead of showing a smooth curving. That is typical of recent bottles.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2017, 07:00:44 pm »

How interesting! Giovanni, I never knew about the faceted grinding being a sign of a newer bottle. I probably wrongly assumed that it was worked from a block of glass and that was the reason for the unevenness of the surface. It seems like with modern polishing machines that the opposite would be true.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:49:50 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 03:28:27 pm »

Folks there has to be some mutual respect imo. A lot of polarisation happening in the world at the moment and here now on this forum. I honestly believe good ideas and opinions can be taken from the left and the right and we should all make an effort to have respect for each other's opinions even if they differ. No need for all the dislike here - we can all be friends I believe.

I must admit I'm not feeling the love for Trump, but then I liked Obama and have always had a liberal bent, but make an effort to try and be open minded and I'm genuinely interested in others views. I'm looking to see how Trump does in the next year or so whilst hoping some of his more extreme views are hot air and then I'll re-evaluate...

On another note. Interesting bottles in the thread! My view was they were both newish.. if the first bottle was old I'd be tempted to place the date from sometime in the 18th century. For me the bottle shape looks slightly off to be old, but then I have a lot to learn about SBs!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 03:41:16 pm by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

Luke
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 03:58:07 pm »

You are right, Adrian. I let myself be drawn into a mutual diatribe that did NOT contribute to the Forum. I'm going to delete all my posts in this thread that do not deal with snuff bottles.
Thank you for contributing a bit of sanity.
Joey


Folks there has to be some mutual respect imo. A lot of polarisation happening in the world at the moment and here now on this forum. I honestly believe good ideas and opinions can be taken from the left and the right and we should all make an effort to have respect for each other's opinions even if they differ. No need for all the dislike here - we can all be friends I believe.

I must admit I'm not feeling the love for Trump, but then I liked Obama and have always had a liberal bent, but make an effort to try and be open minded and I'm genuinely interested in others views. I'm looking to see how Trump does in the next year or so whilst hoping some of his more extreme views are hot air and then I'll re-evaluate...

On another note. Interesting bottles in the thread! My view was they were both newish.. if the first bottle was old I'd be tempted to place the date from sometime in the 18th century. For me the bottle shape looks slightly off to be old, but then I have a lot to learn about SBs!
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

cshapiro
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 04:46:44 pm »

Luke, thank you for your post.

There does need to be mutual respect here and the topic needs to stay on snuff bottles. I will delete my earlier posts and my account.

Wink
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 04:50:39 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
aidan31
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 05:12:45 pm »

While I rarely post anything of consequence, I feel the need to briefly interject at this point.

Joey and I have been good friends since 1981.  Still, I am one of the "looney left" having become politically active in the Kennedy/Johnson eras.  Nonetheless, with vastly divergent political opinions we have remained friends.  Joey is an intelligent and dedicated collector who has contributed more to the knowledge of snuff bottle collecting than any other living person.  He has contributed financially and intellectually to every area of our hobby.  He has donated copies of his books to any institution with an interest in the subject.  He is a most generous individual in many other areas.

I am delighted that the posts on politics have been deleted and hope that we can keep our discussions germain to the subject.  There has been so very much wonderful information posted on this site, so much help to fellow collectors, that I think we should all focus our efforts on educating and helping each other.  While most never hear from me, this forum has been a delight and I deeply want it to continue.

Best wishes,
Rick
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joearp
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 08:17:41 pm »

Amen Rick...
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