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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
August 24, 2017, 03:50:51 am
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Shandong bottle

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Author Topic: Shandong bottle  (Read 2321 times)
Mat
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 07:01:05 am »

Thank you Samson, now that you say it, yes, they look indeed like rice buns!
Regards, Matthias
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Joey
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 01:26:24 pm »

Dear Samson and Mat,
 
     Because of the large scale of the Weiqi (or Japanese 'Go') board, I thought the bowl was full of the white stone pieces for Weiqi. Although I could be wrong, since there is not visible another bowl with black stone pieces.
   
     I guess they could be rice buns...
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Mat
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 12:23:03 pm »

Dear Joey, thank you, that could certainly be possible, too.
Regards, Matthias
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 11:41:33 pm »

Cross-referencing Le San to Bi Rongjiu:

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1644.new.html#new
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 11:14:52 pm »

Purely by accident, found out some more compelling proof that Le San and Bi Rongjiu are actually the same person, and not contemporaries.  Have a look at  these double bottles both dated 1895, one signed Bi Rongjiu, the other Le San.

Look at painting style and calligraphy style, indistinguishable, in my view...

Bi Rongjiu = Xing Ting = Le San in early formative years = Green Bamboo studio (Chang Bai San Ren)


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« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 11:18:10 pm by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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George
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2017, 12:51:53 am »

I saw these two, but did not think to compare them as the same artist..

Have to say that I am not convinced though Pat..

I think the mountains and landscape as a whole is just enough difference that not the same..  The bird sides I don't think the same.. The branches, leaves, etc are different to me..
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2017, 01:01:03 am »

Nah... I think same.. just unskilled/untrained at that time.... 

For me the evolution and level of complexity was Changbai Shanren --> Le San --> Xing Ting --> Bi Rongjiu

The other things to consider:

a. 1895
b. 2 Shandong Artists at that time?  Not likely, where Bi Rongjiu (real name) is widely accepted as the founder of the Shandong School/movement, and Le San is a pen name (and remains an unknown)
c. the oldest dated Le San bottle is 1893, oldest known dated Bi Rongjiu bottle 1895, this would make Le San precede Bi Rongjiu (highly unlikely)

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George
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2017, 03:18:03 am »

Nah... I think same..

c. the oldest dated Le San bottle is 1893, oldest known dated Bi Rongjiu bottle 1895, this would make Le San precede Bi Rongjiu (highly unlikely)



You certainly have a point Pat !
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