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October 22, 2017, 03:55:01 pm
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Shandong bottle

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Author Topic: Shandong bottle  (Read 2393 times)
Mat
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2017, 07:01:05 am »

Thank you Samson, now that you say it, yes, they look indeed like rice buns!
Regards, Matthias
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Joey
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2017, 01:26:24 pm »

Dear Samson and Mat,
 
     Because of the large scale of the Weiqi (or Japanese 'Go') board, I thought the bowl was full of the white stone pieces for Weiqi. Although I could be wrong, since there is not visible another bowl with black stone pieces.
   
     I guess they could be rice buns...
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Mat
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2017, 12:23:03 pm »

Dear Joey, thank you, that could certainly be possible, too.
Regards, Matthias
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 11:41:33 pm »

Cross-referencing Le San to Bi Rongjiu:

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1644.new.html#new
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 11:14:52 pm »

Purely by accident, found out some more compelling proof that Le San and Bi Rongjiu are actually the same person, and not contemporaries.  Have a look at  these double bottles both dated 1895, one signed Bi Rongjiu, the other Le San.

Look at painting style and calligraphy style, indistinguishable, in my view...

Bi Rongjiu = Xing Ting = Le San in early formative years = Green Bamboo studio (Chang Bai San Ren)


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« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 11:18:10 pm by Pat - 查尚杰 » Report Spam   Logged

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George
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2017, 12:51:53 am »

I saw these two, but did not think to compare them as the same artist..

Have to say that I am not convinced though Pat..

I think the mountains and landscape as a whole is just enough difference that not the same..  The bird sides I don't think the same.. The branches, leaves, etc are different to me..
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2017, 01:01:03 am »

Nah... I think same.. just unskilled/untrained at that time.... 

For me the evolution and level of complexity was Changbai Shanren --> Le San --> Xing Ting --> Bi Rongjiu

The other things to consider:

a. 1895
b. 2 Shandong Artists at that time?  Not likely, where Bi Rongjiu (real name) is widely accepted as the founder of the Shandong School/movement, and Le San is a pen name (and remains an unknown)
c. the oldest dated Le San bottle is 1893, oldest known dated Bi Rongjiu bottle 1895, this would make Le San precede Bi Rongjiu (highly unlikely)

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George
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2017, 03:18:03 am »

Nah... I think same..

c. the oldest dated Le San bottle is 1893, oldest known dated Bi Rongjiu bottle 1895, this would make Le San precede Bi Rongjiu (highly unlikely)



You certainly have a point Pat !
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Rube
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 05:33:31 pm »

Hello All,

I'd like to add another bottle to this thread.  It's a 4 sided Shandong bottle with green overlay.  It measures 2 7/8" w/o the malachite stopper, has a slightly concave lip and base.  After looking at Pat's collection on Bill Patrick's site, I'm guessing 1930's?  Thoughts?

Cheers,

Rube.



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* FullSizeRender shandong 8.jpg (73.15 KB, 480x640 - viewed 13 times.)
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« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2017, 01:20:16 am »

Nice one Rube !
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Joey
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« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2017, 10:19:21 am »

Dear Rube,

     I must confess that I'm not an expert on Shandong painting, but I would date this ca. 1895-1935.
   It's quite nicely painted, but unsigned and undated. What made you date it to the 1930s? You might be right, but I can't tell.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Steven
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« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2017, 10:26:05 am »

Thanks Rube for sharing the beautiful bottle. Its better painted than most of unsigned shandong bottles in middle period .

I am with Joey on the date.

well done , its a very nice bottle!

Steven
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Rube
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« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 03:47:52 pm »

Thanks for your comments everyone!
Joey, I thought there was mention about bottles that had green overlay became available in the 30's, that's why I guessed.

Cheers,
Rube
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Joey
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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2017, 05:51:47 am »

Dear Rube,

     You could be right. I'm not that big on Shandong. Steven and Pat and Bill Patrick would be a better source.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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