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Help with Inscribed Jade Bottle

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Author Topic: Help with Inscribed Jade Bottle  (Read 175 times)
cshapiro
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« on: December 28, 2016, 04:14:07 pm »

Hi there and Happy New Year!

I recently purchased this bottle and am having trouble with the inscription.  It appears to be seal script, but I'm not even sure about that because seal script looks more boxy and this script is more rounded. I assume it's a reign mark because it consists of six characters and because the fifth character looks somewhat similar to the symbol used for "period" in period made.

The front has a carving of the hundred antiques.

Could anyone point me in the right direction to find out more?

thanks!

« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:48:00 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy

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« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 06:36:20 pm »

Dear Cathy,

Interesting bottle!

I see "帝新經民幸來"...

帝新 probably means newly reigned emperor..
民 means people but can't figure out when 經 & 民 are put together...
幸來 means arrival of happiness.

Best,
Samson
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Wattana
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 08:57:45 pm »

Hi Cathy,

I can't help with the inscription, but the calligraphy appears very competently executed. And I do enjoy these mottled jades, which are quite underrated and often overlooked at auctions (luckily for us!).

Happy New Year!
Tom
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cshapiro
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 09:06:28 pm »

Thanks so much Samson! You are so clever! If you figure out the rest please let me know!

Yes Tom, I agree. It's difficult to photograph and looks much better in person. I found a reference to a similar bottle: 6100 from Bonhams Howard and Sullivan collection

Happy New Year! I will raise a glass to my fellow snuff bottle collectors this weekend!
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Cathy
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 10:17:53 pm »

I think this is might be soapstone.. Very similar to  my recently acquired bottle, and same as this other example I found while trying to figure mine out.
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George
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 10:24:37 pm »

Forget what I posted.. I just looked up "mottled" jade, to find it a match !

Sorry...  Lips sealed
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Wattana
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 10:29:56 pm »

George,

I agree, it does look similar to your second link. But on the other hand this mottling is typical of the nephrite jade seen on many archaic objects. In any event, it would be relatively easy for Cathy to determine whether or not it is soapstone with a test.

Tom

OK, I posted my message before seeing yours!
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 11:35:54 pm »

Sorry just seeing this. Yes George first thing I did was a specific gravity test and it came in right at 2.9 so I was assuming it was nephrite. Wink

That was a really good match you found on igavel auctions - I would bet that was jade too - the soapstone being the seal next to it.

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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 12:53:41 am »


That was a really good match you found on igavel auctions - I would bet that was jade too - the soapstone being the seal next to it.



Gosh.. I sure did misinterpret that title..  So would also agree that bottle was likely jade.  That was not a good or correct example to compare with my bottle..  But still, mine is soapstone.

Any hooo.... Yours is a real beauty, and congratulations !
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cshapiro
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 01:39:26 am »

 Grin Thanks George!

Here's that bottle in the Howard and Sullivan collection.

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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 01:46:54 am »

Hi Cathy,

When you mentioned a bottle from the Howard & Sullivan auction in your earlier post the "Howard" part of your reference threw me. I automatically thought of Gilbert & Sullivan and their operas!

But now that you have posted the whole darn page out of the auction, it's time to 'fess up!
See the thread in the following link:

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3109.msg41858.html#msg41858

I have changed the stopper.  Wink

Tom
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:58:23 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2016, 08:01:07 am »

Uh, Guys,
   There is no "Howard and Sullivan Collection"!
   There were two lady collectors, Marcia Howard from Indiana and Joanna Lau Sullivan from Honolulu.
 
   Marcia had collected since mid-1970s with her late husband Rod, and joined the Society (ICSBS) by 1976.. Both were really nice people, who I always enjoyed meeting at conventions and sometimes at auctions in NYC, London or Hong Kong. After Rod passed away, Marcia continued to attend conventions till she passed away, before 2011.

   Joanna Lau Sullivan was a vivacious Chinese Hawaiian lady, married to 'Sully' Sullivan, who, after serving in Hawaii during WWII, with her, founded the very successful Foodland supermarket chain in Hawaii. She could be very tough in business, as I experienced in 1994.
YF Yang and I had to 'share' with her the hosting of the Convention's Chinese Banquet at the 1994 Honolulu convention. We wanted a much better, but more modest Chinese restaurant (Panda, on Kalakaua), while she insisted on the very glitzy [but not as good food] Chinese restaurant at Hilton Hawaiian Village, because she could swing 'deals' for herself. 

    Mr. Yang and I outsmarted her - he was his careful and dignified self and dealt with her; I was crafty, contacted a young waiter  (whom I'd met when there previously with a group of friends, and he'd flirted with me), and got inside info, which enabled Mr. Yang to politely demand that either she indeed pay 1/3 of EVERYTHING, or we would move the banquet back to Panda and co-host (YF & myself) it without her.

   She'd set it up so that she would get most credit (the general manager was a friend of her husband's, and would make a big show of her) while paying 10% of the cost, and we paid 45% each.

   Neither Mr. Yang, an extremely modest and self-effacing true gentleman, nor I, NEEDED any publicity; but it rankled that we would be paying 90% of the cost and she would get the lion's share of the credit. He made sure that she paid her fair share, and we also spoke to the chef and got better food than she'd originally contracted for (turned out she'd chosen some things which looked fancy but weren't the best dishes the restaurant could produce), and it was also a pork-free and shellfish-free meal (He's Moslem and I'm Jewish). She still got most of the attention, but we were happy with the food quality, and not being overcharged.

   As well, a lot of her Wang Xisan bottles are fake. Me bad. Roll Eyes Grin
Best,
Happy Hanuka,
Joey
   
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 03:21:09 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2016, 12:08:21 pm »

Tom, I get a "off limits" message when I try to go to that link. So I'm assuming that bottle is yours? If so, how cool!  Maybe I should ask George why I can't see the page? Wink

Joey, I love your stories. They are so entertaining and informative!
The catalog has quite a big writeup about Sullivan's relationship with Wang Xisan. I would LOVE to know which ones are fake, so I have uploaded the pdf to share it with you. To download it, click this link:

http://www.flashprodesign.com/files/Bonhams-Howard-and-Sullivan-Collections.pdf
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2016, 06:35:40 pm »

Tom, I get a "off limits" message when I try to go to that link. So I'm assuming that bottle is yours? If so, how cool!  Maybe I should ask George why I can't see the page? Wink


There is a part of the forum a few collectors asked me to create so they can share privately between themselves.  Sometimes a few of our members just do not want to share postings to the public.

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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2016, 10:14:34 pm »


Tom, I get a "off limits" message when I try to go to that link.


Sorry about that Cathy. Here are the photos...


* SB178.1a-lo.jpg (53.63 KB, 450x600 - viewed 6 times.)

* SB178.1b-lo.jpg (53.8 KB, 450x600 - viewed 4 times.)

* SB178.1d-lo.jpg (47.52 KB, 450x600 - viewed 3 times.)

* SB178.1e-lo.jpg (42.79 KB, 480x400 - viewed 4 times.)

* SB178.1g-lo.jpg (46.39 KB, 480x400 - viewed 4 times.)
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cshapiro
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« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 11:48:59 pm »

Oh wow that is one gorgeous bottle Tom! I am quite envious! Wink
I am curious if the script is raised or incised? It looks raised to me - mine is incised.
How fun that you own the one I referenced!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 12:01:17 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2016, 03:21:52 am »

Thanks Cathy.

You are correct - the script on mine is raised in relief.
Reading Joey's short "bio" of the previous owner, I'm suddenly less attracted to it.

Tom
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2016, 04:23:03 am »

Dear Tom,

      Don't be. It is a beautiful bottle, and Joanna Lau Sullivan was not an evil person, like Hillary Clinton; she was just a tad unethical.
She gave a lot to charity, and after the issues with the banquet, was very nice both to me and to YF. It seems like she was testing us, and was impressed that we didn't just accept her shenanigans lying down.

      And if it REALLY bothers you, I'd be happy to buy it from you! Grin Roll Eyes
I'd have no problem with the provenance.
Best,
Joey


Thanks Cathy.

You are correct - the script on mine is raised in relief.
Reading Joey's short "bio" of the previous owner, I'm suddenly less attracted to it.

Tom
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 04:42:04 am »



      And if it REALLY bothers you, I'd be happy to buy it from you! Grin Roll Eyes
I'd have no problem with the provenance.


Dear Joey,

It doesn't bother me enough to go THAT far !!!   Grin  Wink

All best,
Tom
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 05:39:15 am »

Aw darn!  Roll Eyes Grin
Enjoy it in good health!  Grin
Best for 2017,
Joey




      And if it REALLY bothers you, I'd be happy to buy it from you! Grin Roll Eyes
I'd have no problem with the provenance.


Dear Joey,

It doesn't bother me enough to go THAT far !!!   Grin  Wink

All best,
Tom
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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