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Enamelled Magpies Porcelain Snuff

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Author Topic: Enamelled Magpies Porcelain Snuff  (Read 195 times)
pookles
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« on: December 21, 2016, 04:01:44 pm »

Dear members,

I've been trying to decipher this snuff bottle. The bottle depicts magpies and prunus with a continuous scene around the bottle and there are 17 magpies. The main questions I have are is it hand painted and how old is this bottle? The bottle I believe is porcelain and definitley is not resin as I have stuck a hot pin in the base. The porcelain is very thin and light and the thinness becomes evident once you shine a light inside. The bottle is I believe hand painted as I can't find any evidence of transfer printing or screen printing though perhaps someone with more knowledge can help - I have attached a macro shot.

Regarding the age of the bottle, I'm confused. The colour palette although similar does not seem to match the more muted colours of older bottles I have looked at with this same magpie theme. Also, this bottle has obviously been pieced together in 2 parts as the join is visible on both shoulders, which perhaps indicates it was made using older methods.

Lastly, the bottle is glazed inside and out and the foot has been left unglazed. I believe the painting is under the glaze and the dark pink enamel has been applied over the glaze.

Please see this bottle for instance which was sold at Christies
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/1780-1820-5922168-details.aspx



* M1.jpg (386.47 KB, 750x1038 - viewed 16 times.)

* M2.jpg (360.84 KB, 694x1064 - viewed 16 times.)

* M3.jpg (206.55 KB, 800x694 - viewed 8 times.)

* M5.jpg (299.13 KB, 800x846 - viewed 26 times.)

* M6.jpg (277.17 KB, 678x1260 - viewed 9 times.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:11:36 pm by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

Luke

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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2016, 05:17:19 pm »

Dear Luke,

     Sorry to have to disappoint you just before your Feast, but the bottle is modern and not very good, in my opinion.
I have an 18th C. Enameled Porcelain with this subject, and it is so much better painted and enameled.  I might be wrong and it could be Republic (ca.1910-1940), but i honestly don't think so.

    Possibly Giovanni or one of the others who knows the later period stuff, can give you a more positive dating.
Again, Sorry.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2016, 07:31:22 pm »

I would like to take a guess before one of the experienced collectors date this modern one.

I think 1950 or so..  I actually like the painting.
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Pat - 查尚杰
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2016, 07:33:17 pm »

It is very modern in my view.
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Pat
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pookles
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 01:54:45 am »

Thanks for all opinions much appreciated guys.

Dear Joey,

Thanks for your honesty! I agree the painting on all the old examples I have seen is much finer and stylistically different. It won't spoil my feast Smiley I'm planning on buying a proper Christmas snuff bottle, but having trouble finding the right one! On a positive note I purchased this one for pennies.

Dear George, yes I don't mind the painting either. Of course when compared to the finer older examples it isn't as pleasing. I was confused on the dating on this one largely because of the seam/join. Would be nice if it did have a little age. Overall, think I overthought this one!

Pat - agreed it probably is.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 02:00:12 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 02:04:28 am »

Luke

Nothing wrong with modern, but it all depends on taste, I suppose.  You are better of saving up for genuine used articles, but of course that is a personal opinion....

Good luck finding a Xmas bottle!

BTW, the Christies bottle is very nice... thanks for the link!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 02:06:02 am by Pat » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 02:23:12 am »

Dear Luke,
the bottle as said by others is very very modern. Regardless the type or quality of the decoration, you have to focus on the base. It is very distinctive, totally different from that of old bottles. Stay away from bottles with that type of base, they are always modern.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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pookles
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 07:25:03 am »

Hello Pat,

Agreed, nothing wrong with modern. I'm largely trying to collect older bottles though and of the porcelain variety at the moment. I may turn to inside painted or organic next, but seems easier to just focus on one medium! I really did pay pennies for this one.

Yep the Christie's bottle is very appealing to me too. It's the type of bottle I would consider spending some money on if I had the chance to buy it Smiley

Dear Giovanni,

thank you for the advice on the base. Yes, the base is interesting here as there is no foot as such and the base is convex with a rounded foot rim. I will try and look at a few old and modern examples of bases like this. I just joined gotheborg and there looks like there's a lot of information on there about this type of thing - some of it must be applicable to porcelain snuff bottles too I guess.

Best
Luke

« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 07:28:31 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 03:46:17 am »

Dear Luke,
welcome to Gotheborg Grin. Do you have the same name there? You will not find old bases looking that way. You can find convex bases, round foots, and so on, but not that typical appearance, which include the texture of the paste.
Kind regards
Giovanni.
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pookles
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2016, 02:21:09 am »

Dear Luke,
welcome to Gotheborg Grin. Do you have the same name there? You will not find old bases looking that way. You can find convex bases, round foots, and so on, but not that typical appearance, which include the texture of the paste.
Kind regards
Giovanni.

Dear Giovanni,

Sorry for the late reply. Been a busy Christmas this year. And thanks for the welcome! Chinese ceramics is obviously a huge subject but I'm really keen to learn more. My username on there is Doodiewiz. I think I recognise you on there too as you made a thread about that lovely bottle in your avatar.

Best
Luke
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Luke
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