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November 20, 2017, 12:48:37 pm
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Ye Zhongsan Signed Bottle Questionable

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Author Topic: Ye Zhongsan Signed Bottle Questionable  (Read 182 times)
cshapiro
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« on: December 07, 2016, 01:04:26 pm »

Hi there!

I promise not to have seller's remorse, but I just sold this bottle because I knew the painting style was not right for Ye Zhongsan, but in all other respects the painting seems good, the calligraphy is good, the bottle is good. The bottle might even be rock crystal because I can't find a bubble in it.

I did consider that it might be another artist signing as Ye Zhongsan, but couldn't figure out who that might be. It's sold now anyway, so it doesn't really matter except that I would like to learn from this and see if I was right to sell the bottle or not.

Two things that really bothered me about it were: the staining below the calligraphy, the tobacco staining inside seemed too even and intentional.

thanks

« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 01:53:01 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy

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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 02:21:55 pm »

Dear Cathy,
 
    I think it is a modern copy/fake Ye Zhongsan, but Steven has a better 'eye' than me over the 'Net.
What do you think, Steven?
Best,
Joey
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cshapiro
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 02:56:04 pm »

Thanks Joey!
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Cathy
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2016, 07:51:47 pm »

This is a fake for sure.  Note the color palette is (way) off and the calligraphy is not at all like Ye family. Finally, it is brush painted... not by bamboo.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 07:53:46 pm by Pat » Report Spam   Logged

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cshapiro
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2016, 09:50:32 pm »

Thanks Pat! I was on the fence about this bottle - now I'm not! Very interesting about the brush painting. I really need to learn to tell the difference.
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Cathy
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2016, 12:32:31 am »

The bottle is not even correct

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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 08:02:46 am »

Dear Pin,

     Do I correctly understand from your terse comment, that the bottle blank is not even correct for a Ye Zhongsan bottle?
Actually, I did not pay enough attention to that, after I had discounted the bottle due to the painting and calligraphy.
I probably should have been more observant.
Best
joey

The bottle is not even correct

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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 08:10:44 am »

Yes Joey.... that's a very recent bottle blank...

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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

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cshapiro
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 09:01:48 am »

Thanks Pin. It did seem new, and I felt like it was glass but there was not a bubble in it. I guess with new technology they can make flawless glass?
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 12:58:39 pm »

Cathy,

     Is it glass or lead crystal?
Joey
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2016, 04:48:27 pm »

Hi Joey,

That's a good question! I don't know, and it's already gone so I can't perform any tests on it. I searched all over the bottle looking for a bubble and couldn't find one. The glass walls seemed thinner than normal and it was very light weight.

Trying to figure out the difference between glass, leaded glass crystal, and rock crystal has been my biggest challenge. When a bottle has no bubbles and no inclusions what does one do to determine what it is?

I was just reading more and found that leaded glass that is manufactured is less likely to have bubbles. There is also optic glass that would be flawless.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 05:07:52 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2016, 04:25:27 am »

If it is light in weight, chances are it is glass, not leaded crystal. The 'leaded' should give a hint that it is heavy, having 30+% lead content (the main difference, I understand, between glass and lead crystal).
What is optical glass?
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2016, 09:28:32 am »

Hi Joey, I was reading optic glass was developed originally for eyeglasses but the technology is used elsewhere too.
The walls were so thin that it had to be a newer bottle with some additive.
I took out several bottles last night to compare them. I have only one bottle that I can definitely call rock crystal (because it has a rainbow inclusion) and it seems I must sharpen my senses to tell the difference. I imagine with practice I will be able to tell, but in the meantime I think a spectrophotometer is a must for me.

If anyone has advice about where to buy or what kind, please share.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2016, 03:46:12 pm »

Cathy,

    You may be right that it is optic glass, then.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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