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A Ye Zhongsan signed bottle

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Author Topic: A Ye Zhongsan signed bottle  (Read 248 times)
samsonlzj
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« on: November 25, 2016, 10:24:30 am »

Let's keep the bottles rolling! Cheesy

Dear all,

It's been a while since I last shared a bottle. Here I present a Ye Zhongsan signed IP bottle with a subject from "Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio" which I acquired in September. It's the first Ye bottle in my collection. As well as the first quality IP bottle I have. So happy that I got it! I had the opportunity to show it to Joey during his recent visit to my home in HK.

The bottle is dated Bingwu year 1906.

Enjoy!

Best,
Samson


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AntPeople
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2016, 06:31:07 pm »

Congratulation and a very nice example

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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

George
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2016, 07:31:43 pm »

What a wonderful bottle Samson !

I tried to find reference describing these two scenes for you from Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio..  No luck..

I really need to find an illustrated book or good online reference for Strange Stories from a Chinese Studio..

Big congratulations Samson !
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2016, 08:08:45 pm »

Congratulations Samson
That's one of the coolest and most unusual bottles I've ever seen by Ye Zhongsan
 :)cathy
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Cathy
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2016, 11:13:39 pm »

Dear all,

Thanks! Glad that you like it! By the way, I recently learned from Joey that a way to distinguish whether a Ye bottle is done by Ye the Elder or the family studio is that if the bottle is done by Ye the Elder, the top of the "Ye" character in the signature should resemble the English letter "Y" (according to Y.F. Yang). I can see that in my bottle, together with the date of 1906, I'm pretty sure it's the work of Ye the Elder. Upon learning so, I told Joey that Ye Zhongsan probably knew English to have purposely signed his name this way, i.e. "Y" stands for "Ye". Wink

Best,
Samson
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 12:43:35 am »

There is a wonderful resource available online from Hugh Moss - it's a compilation of all the articles written on the Apricot Grove studio here:
http://www.e-yaji.com/books/articles/The%20Apricot%20Grove%20Studio/index.html

It mentions how Ye the elder sometimes did the zig zag on the san character as seen on your bottle.
See 58a., 80, 91a, and 127.
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Cathy
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 04:21:59 am »

Dear Cathy,

Thank you for the info. Smiley

Scenes from this Qing period classic literature seems to be one of Ye's favorite subjects.

Best,
Samson
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2016, 11:22:04 am »

Is it glass or rock crystal? HM says 1905 was his best year so yours is right in that area. I have acquired one of his fish bottles and will post photos when it gets in because I need help with the date. Wink
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 06:26:38 pm »

I keep coming back to look at your bottle Samson..

I can not find another example where he painted this scene, and can not recall ever seeing it before.  Very unique painting I think..


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samsonlzj
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 07:26:52 pm »

Is it glass or rock crystal? HM says 1905 was his best year so yours is right in that area. I have acquired one of his fish bottles and will post photos when it gets in because I need help with the date. Wink

Dear Cathy,

Mine is glass. Look forward to seeing what you got Smiley

Dear George,

I wish mine is that one of a kind too, but I happened to find another example where he painted this scene. Here's the link: http://www.espace4.com/en/collections/inside-painted-glass-snuff-bottle-po-songlings-folk-tales-by-ye-zhongsan/

Best to all,
Samson
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2016, 08:05:44 pm »

Samson

Congrats ! Nice bottle ...one we all would love to have !

As my collecting years go on and my collection grows with it, I am learning that people like Ma Shaoxuan and Ye Zhongsan (and family) actually repeated subjects more often than some of the good second tier artists like Chen Zhongsan, Yan Yutian, Meng Zishou, and others actually repeated less of their work but instead created variations on it.

I find that unfortunate but I guess these guys were so popular that it turned them into commercial artistry , like a vicious cycle they couldn't get out of.
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2016, 11:53:40 pm »

Dear Pat,

Thanks! I noticed the same. Scenes from the Four Great Chinese Classics seem to be the trend at that time (with an exception of Journey to the West which I haven't seen any early IP artists painting so far). Artists like YZS (and his family studio) and MSX repeatedly painted them to meet the market preference at that time. They were more inclined to make arts that could sell.

This once caused me to hesitate in getting a MSX bottle that seemed genuine. I didn't get it because I had seen another example that had the exact same subject shortly before, causing me to doubt whether the one I wanted to get was original. Back then, I just started collecting snuff bottles and didn't know that it was such a common thing for artists to repeat certain subjects in their works.

I think the same commercial motive was behind the practice of some artists in signing other more famous artists' names on their own works (for the case of Ye Family Studio, many works they produced were signed Ye the Elder).

Best,
Samson
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2016, 04:37:52 pm »

Looks like it will be another week before my fish bottle gets here so in the meantime I thought I would share my two other Ye Zhongsan bottles and see if I can find out more about them.
The first one is glass and I believe dated 1905 and so I think it's a Ye the elder bottle. I don't know where the scene comes from but have seen it in other bottles. The sides are flattened and have an aquatic plant and dragonfly on one side, and a bird and branch on the other.
The second one is rock crystal and has a beautiful rainbow inclusion (see pictures). I think it depicts the seven sages in the bamboo grove, is a continuous landscape, and is dated 1924. I read that 1924 can be confused with 1894 but I don't think it's the older date. I'm not sure if it's done by Ye the elder or one of his sons and would welcome your opinions and comments on these bottles. 


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Cathy
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2016, 05:19:02 pm »

Dear Cathy,

Congratulations, these are gorgeous! By the way, I wanted to get the first one but was outbid literally at the last second, so it was you! Wink Anyway, nice buy!

Best,
Samson
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2016, 05:21:30 pm »

Oh Samson! I'm sorry!
I got a steal on that bottle didn't I?
Now the second one is a different story - I probably overpaid for it so maybe it all evens out. Wink
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Cathy
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2016, 05:23:46 pm »

Oh Samson! I'm sorry!
I got a steal on that bottle didn't I?

Haha well you did! But your bid was considerably higher than mine! So fair enough!
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2016, 05:29:00 pm »

So do you think my dates are right? And who do you think did the second bottle? Father or one of the sons?
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2016, 06:06:37 pm »

I think you dated the second one right, Jiazi year 1924. The first one should be 1929 Jiyi year. In my opinion they are both Ye the Elder's works.
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2016, 06:26:39 pm »

Ohhh gotcha! I see the difference now in the two dates. The 1905 is more of a Z looking first character whereas the 1929 looks like a backwards 5.
Thanks Samson!
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Cathy
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