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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 18, 2018, 03:07:35 pm
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Cylindrical Blue & White Underglaze Snuff Bottle

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Author Topic: Cylindrical Blue & White Underglaze Snuff Bottle  (Read 399 times)
pookles
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« on: November 19, 2016, 05:06:39 am »

Hi guys,

what are your opinions on this bottle regarding age? Also, any info you might have about these types of bottles is appreciated. Always try to research new purchases! I've been reading up on these types of bottles on the forum and elsewhere.

As seen from the photos there is a continuous scene around the bottle with deer in a landscape with a tree. Also, on the foot is a deer mark. I like the fact the lip on the bottle is quite wide as probably more likely this is a bottle used for snuff... The stopper is not the original of course, but is a good fit and like the jade... shame the blue and white scene is not super sharp, but I really like it nevertheless...







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George
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 05:27:09 am »

I do like these wide mouth bottles..  But there are a few things here that I have not seen on other similar bottles..

Lets see what others say..

I like the stopper on the bottle just fine.. I wonder if this bottle might be pretty difficult to fit with anything different than the stopper you have.

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Joey
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 11:57:27 am »

Dear Luke,
   
     I agree with George - I like this bottle. I think the quality is very good from what I can see.

      I'd reckon the dating would be 1865 - 1900, but still a quality bottle I'd not be ashamed to own.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 02:41:55 pm »

Dear Luke,
how many deers are on the bottle? I would not be surprised if they are 18.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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pookles
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2016, 04:21:36 pm »

Hey George, what do you see that does not look like other bottles of this type? Be really interested to know what u think.

Dear Joey, really glad you like - i’m happy adding this one to my collection.

Giovanni - just counted them and yes there is 18 deer, but only if i include the one on the foot of the bottle… what is the significance of 18? I’ve seen that number on those famille rose lohan bottles…
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 04:47:34 pm »

Hey George, what do you see that does not look like other bottles of this type? Be really interested to know what u think.


I was thinking of the neck, lip, and neck band..  Not as well defined as other wide mouthed bottles like Joey's #'s 17 and 42, In Search of a Dragon. 


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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 03:50:38 am »

Dear Luke,
I don't know exactly the meaning of the 18 deers. I have a snuff bottle and a hat stand, both decorated with 18 deers, a monkey on the pine tree and a spider net. Never found the meaning of that motif, while it is more common to see a deer, a monkey and wasp.
May I ask you to sign your messages? I have a short memory and I could call you Pookles next time, which I don't know if it is fair or not.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 05:09:13 am »

George, I see what you mean. Although both bottles in Joey's collection have different necks and lips they are more defined. Unfortunately, my bottle has a few frits right on the edge of the lip, which adds to the lack of the definition. If you look at the 2nd photo of my bottle in the original post the lip is a bit more defined as there are less frits there. Maybe, there are just various examples of these wide mouth bottles with various degrees of definition - not sure. Look at this one from the V&A:

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O9072/snuff-bottle-unknown/

Seems less definition then Joey's and more on a par with mine perhaps? Here's another pic of the mouth of my bottle - you can see the fritting I mention and the mouth of the bottle:

Dear Giovanni,

thanks for the info. I need to do some more reading on Chinese meanings and symbolism. I added a signature to avoid confusion Smiley



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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 09:24:13 am »

Look at this one from the V&A:

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O9072/snuff-bottle-unknown/

Seems less definition then Joey's and more on a par with mine perhaps? Here's another pic of the mouth of my bottle - you can see the fritting I mention and the mouth of the bottle:


Yes, it does look closer..
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 11:59:18 am »

Dear Luke,

    I feel your example fits well with my two and the V & A example. I am not sure if some are older or younger, but feel all are good examples.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

pookles
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 03:51:55 am »

Dear Luke,

    I feel your example fits well with my two and the V & A example. I am not sure if some are older or younger, but feel all are good examples.
Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

Thanks - I think it's a nice bottle too. Really happy with it. I brought it from a good source who has has bottles ranging from decent to amazing bottles, which are of course very expensive.

I think the bottle is 19th, but not that fussed if it is was made 50 years ago - just really like these types of bottles.


 
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 06:33:49 pm »

I also love the deer on the base of the bottle.  Very nice bottle.  Jo
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2016, 07:06:16 pm »

Dear Luke,

   After rereading this post of yours, I just had to comment.
OF COURSE you count the one on the foot! The whole point of putting it there is to surprise and entertain the viewer when they find the 'hidden' one, and it points to the rebus meaning.
One has to take every  decorative detail into account. Never assume that  a detail like that is just a 'throw-away'. That is part of the beauty of Chinese art and indeed Chinese culture. It demands deeper study; but it also rewards that study.
Best from  'The Fragrant Harbour' (though not as fragrant as it might have been in the 1840s!).

 Best,
Joey


Hey George, what do you see that does not look like other bottles of this type? Be really interested to know what u think.

Dear Joey, really glad you like - i’m happy adding this one to my collection.

Giovanni - just counted them and yes there is 18 deer, but only if i include the one on the foot of the bottle… what is the significance of 18? I’ve seen that number on those famille rose lohan bottles…

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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

pookles
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 12:47:48 pm »

Dear Joey,

yes lots of learning to do... i've bought a book on Chinese porcelain in general, not just limited to snuff bottles. Also, I have another book arriving - the one George mentions In Search Of A Dragon I believe.. Before I buy a bottle that costs too much! I want to be more informed Smiley

Thanks Joearp!
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2016, 11:33:08 am »

Dear Luke,
 
    You bought "In Search of A Dragon"? Wish I'd known you wanted it. I'd have sent you a copy.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2016, 04:35:56 am »

Dear Joey

Very kind of you. Unfortunately the book is already on the way from the US.

I also only just twigged that this is your collection! What made me buy the book was the front cover, was drooling over those beautiful blue and whites - had no idea they were yours Smiley Some amazing bottles you have. Also, i'm not aware of another book that just reviews porcelain bottles. Looking forward to getting it... Smiley
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