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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
May 27, 2018, 12:15:38 am
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Porcelain bottle on ebay

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Author Topic: Porcelain bottle on ebay  (Read 634 times)
pookles
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2017, 09:13:40 am »

Dear all,

Sorry to revive this thread, but I discovered some extra info and I do wonder if we all missed out on a genuine Wang Bingrong bottle here after spying this one in the Marakovic collection:

http://www.e-yaji.com/Marakovic_images/zoom/II.34.html

It is literally the double of the ebay bottle as far as I can tell although the scene of the crane is a mirror image I believe. Also, the mark on the foot is exactly the same! Here is the ebay link again for reference as if you click through most of the images including the mark on the foot are still there:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-HAND-CARVED-PORCELAIN-SNUFF-BOTTLE-19TH-CENTURY-WANG-BINGRONG-/361735610579?rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=1102195607373&nma=true&si=y0aHKVr2MXe2P4FB0m1Dk%252FZDDhA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&clk_rvr_id=1172563661292&rmvSB=true


Does this change anyone's opinion? Or is this just a good copy of this exact bottle in the Marakovic collection? The last option is I suppose both bottles are imitations of genuine Wang Bingrong bottles....
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 09:15:18 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

Luke
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2017, 01:49:46 pm »


Luke,

I was aware of the Marakovic bottle, plus I have a beautifully illustrated collection book on these carved porcelains by various artists when I was making my comparison. My opinion is the same as shown:

Quote
I was actually bidding on this bottle with the assumption that it was an older reproduction.  It does not have an original Bingrong mark in my opinion, but was a nice older copy.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

pookles
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2017, 07:58:27 pm »

Charll,

The problem with the ebay bottle in my view is it's hard to see through all the dirt. Seems feasible perhaps if the dirt was scrubbed off the carving may look as sharp as the Marakovic bottle...or maybe not. Anyway, I think I got a bit excited when I saw the same abbreviated mark as this apparently genuine WBR bottle...  Huh

« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 08:00:50 pm by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2017, 10:26:01 pm »

Hi Luke,

I just tried to access the eBay link you gave. The description is still there, but all the images of that bottle have been removed!

Tom
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Tom
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 04:33:06 am »

Hi Tom,

sorry, yeah the link seems a bit temperamental - pics sometimes there, sometimes not. I grabbed a couple of pics. Here they are...

Luke


* ebay1.jpg (244.3 KB, 652x1064 - viewed 16 times.)

* ebay2.jpg (134.94 KB, 850x562 - viewed 16 times.)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 04:35:16 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2017, 04:37:40 am »

Wow. A beautiful and well executed bottle!  Thanks for posting it Luke!  Did it say how tall it was? 
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2017, 04:43:22 am »

Hey Pat, a pleasure.... the bottle is 72mm high without the stopper....
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« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2017, 04:51:57 am »

Hmmm..  That's what is a bit puzzling. Look at this one:

http://www.thecranecollection.com/the-collection/ceramic/biscuit-porcelain/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=75&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=373&cHash=dc4e619944

That may indeed actually have been the real thing Luke!
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« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2017, 04:55:10 am »

I am in agreement with Charll on this in regards to not having an original Bingrong mark, but a nice older copy.

I searched all the images within "Elegance in Relief" and there are no examples with this mark.  
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« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2017, 04:56:21 am »

Hi Pat, Yes, I've seen that one before. In my view a more beautiful bottle than both of these examples. The way more branches and pine needles wrap around the back of the bottle and the crane is more tastefully positioned on the front of the bottle as the bill of the bird does not wrap around the side. Anyway, yes a different mark, but the mark on the Marakovic bottle is the same mark as the ebay bottle. It's puzzling I guess as perhaps this abbreviated mark is a genuine WBR mark...
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« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2017, 04:57:06 am »

I am in agreement with Charll on this in regards to not having an original Bingrong mark, but a nice older copy.

I searched all the images within "Elegance in Relief" and there are no examples with this mark.  

Interesting George! Do you think the Marakovic bottle may not be a genuine WBR?
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« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2017, 06:15:28 am »



Interesting George! Do you think the Marakovic bottle may not be a genuine WBR?

Yes, that would be my best guess..
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« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2017, 09:45:15 am »

Hi Luke,

Thanks for the pics. In my opinion the base mark on the ebay bottle is not a genuine Wang Binrong. The quality of the glaze looks off too. The seller refers to it being a bit grubby, but could that simply be a cover up for the off glaze?

I tend to agree with George's comment concerning the "other" bottle.
 
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2017, 03:19:56 am »

Thanks for the info folks and sorry to bring this one up again! On another note I purchased the Elegance In Relief book after reviving this thread. Looks like a very nice book and interested to read more about these kind of ceramics from this period... Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2017, 10:17:14 am »

Thanks for the info folks and sorry to bring this one up again! On another note I purchased the Elegance In Relief book after reviving this thread. Looks like a very nice book and interested to read more about these kind of ceramics from this period... Smiley

I could not afford the book so asked my local library to get me a copy and I then scanned most of the book..

Really a great book..
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