General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, evaluating, identifying, researching, appraisals, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Steven shared this beautiful Ma Shaoxian bottle

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector

The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 21, 2017, 07:48:47 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Downloads Gallery Staff List Login Register  

Suzhou carved bottles?

Pages: 1 [2]
  Add poll  |  Print  
Author Topic: Suzhou carved bottles?  (Read 717 times)
Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3916



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2016, 11:41:56 am »

Dear Cathy,

Its quite obvious whom you should believe, ask yourself ,who makes the profit ,We can not make any profit by telling the truth.. at same time ,we have to spend time to answer your questions .

Ofcoz, its your right and a wise way to ask other opinions. What I was trying to say is that you will not find a better appraiser than the experts here while we work as a team. We do agree and diagree each other some times ,but if we all agree at same time, then most likely its the fact.  Some bottles ,you do have to handle it to find out the truth , but not for your bottles which they are quite obvious modern pieces. I know that you might ask why the expert like Joey and Tom all need to handle it before judging ,why can you be so sure . I would say they are all gentleman who wont judge just by a pic even they almost 99%positive . But I am different, I am not such a gentleman. Grin

Having said that I would love to see what you  can find out about your bottles.

Happy hunting.

Steven
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 03:03:47 pm by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

cshapiro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 590



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2016, 11:59:14 am »

Dear Giovanni,

If the only opinion that matters is here on this forum, then it is indeed a powerful tool.

So from your post it seems that the collective opinion of this forum is beyond question.  

That would mean that you and all the other members are true experts.

That is absolute power freely given with no bias, no politics, and no prejudice. Quite impressive to find such perfection!

 Wink
Cathy



 




Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2763



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2016, 12:58:58 pm »

Dear Cathy,
please do not put in my mouth words that I never said. And donít accuse me of a behavior that I do not had. Please re-read what I said. I think that I canít be misunderstood. Re-read and you will see that I didnít say that we are infallible.
Anyway, please go whenever you want, I will avoid to comment about the result. In your place, instead of accusing others to be presumptuous, I would consider the possibility that others are trying to avoid you a bad experience that they have been gone through.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

cshapiro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 590



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2016, 02:25:59 pm »

Giovanni - I was being a smartass. Sorry for being a prat.

I have found some people on this board to be extremely helpful and encouraging.
In particular George, Tom, Pin, YT, Samson and Steven I would like to thank for their help - and I'm sure I'm missing some names.

Joey - what do I say? I now know the meaning of a love hate relationship.
Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2763



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2016, 02:57:04 pm »

Dear Cathy,
everybody here is good people. I know I am too much straightforward sometimes, it must be because of the age; but although I think that I have some kindness, I am not able to say, for example, "your nice bottle is not of the best quality" when the bottle is a rubbish. I prefer to tell directly that it is a rubbish, because I am convinced that it is more educative.
Kind regards
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

rpfstoneman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1601



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2016, 04:18:49 pm »

Quote
First off I'm not to keen on your jade bottle (it's just my personal taste) and would consider it a middle grade bottle.

Cathy, just to be clear on your jade bottle see my quote above.  If you're including me in your reference as a contradiction to the age of your jade bottle, or it being a reproduction, I said neither.  I am not a jade snuff bottle collector, but have seen and handled a number of them.  When it comes to dating I feel it is almost impossible to do it over the internet from photos.  If trying to do so I would have to defer to the opinions of Joey, Tom, Richard, and YT, in the hope that I could achieve some consensus among these active Forum members that have such bottles in their collection.  It was most certainly on my intent to contradict any previous dating or to degrade your jade bottle.  It is simply not to my taste.  Now your agates, as mentioned, are another story even if they are modern. 

Charll   
Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8467


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2016, 05:09:02 pm »

Dear Cathy,
 
      I keep telling you I can't be sure from a picture on the screen; I can be almost 100% sure ONLY when I hold it in my hand. And I have also kept saying, "DON'T buy until you know what you are doing!"
And telling you that Clare Chu in LA, Marsha Vargas Handley in SF and Michael Hughes in NYC are reputable dealers I can vouch for. I can not comment on the honesty of other dealers, or their 'certificates of authenticity' or claims of  provenance.
On the screen, your jade looked pretty good. But please reread the first line of this message.
Steven, Charll, George, Giovanni, Pat, and the others go through eBAY etc.    I don't.

    And I just read what you wrote about a 'love-hate' relationship.
I don't know about your end, but there is NO hate on my end.
Just a lot of frustration when I keep suggesting you NOT spend lots of money till you know what you are doing; but then you post more and more bottles with (I assume) higher and higher price tags, bought after I asked you to slow down and absorb more knowledge first.  So I guess you know better what's best for you, and I wish you well.

Best,
Joey


I bought the agates from an I.M. Chait Gallery Auction

I've seen what I think are modern reproductions for sale, but they tend to look dyed, the carving is simple, and they are usually not carved on both sides.

Joey - you had already said you thought my jade piece was old.  Now everyone is devaluing this jade that I paid a great deal for and that has provenance!

I do not think it's middle quality or a reproduction.

I will take them all to an appraiser and post the findings.


« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 05:19:40 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

joearp
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Female
Posts: 636


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2016, 08:09:37 pm »

Cathy- What would be of great benefit to you in my opinion is to come to LA for the ICSBC and hold the bottles in the dealers room, talk to other collectors and just get a feel for quality bottles.  If you can not come but for a day or two I think it would really help you.  A few years ago I bought quite a few bottles before handling really fine bottles.  Going to a convention certainly helped me a great deal and helped me to develop my eye...which is still developing.  I think if you could do that it would make many of the suggestions of the experts at the Forum crystal clear.     Just a suggestion!  I hate to see you make some of the mistakes I made early on!  All the best!  Jo
Report Spam   Logged

cshapiro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 590



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2016, 11:59:06 pm »

Thanks Jo

I have parent's weekend in Boston at the same time, otherwise I would go.
And I do appreciate all the information here, just not sure how to process a lot of it. Wink

Cathy
Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2016, 03:18:39 am »

I have found some people on this board to be extremely helpful and encouraging.
In particular George, Tom, Pin, YT, Samson and Steven I would like to thank for their help - and I'm sure I'm missing some names.

Dear Cathy,

You have been most kind for my name to be mentioned when I did not help much.  Tongue

My point is very simple. This is a bottle that I recently acquire and is the cheapest of all my 'SuZhou' Agate bottles at $9,375. Best PROVEN provenance and superb quality.

With all the modern hardstone bottles that you have purchased, would it have been better to get just one like this?

Cheers,
YT


* 569a Agate.jpg (62.34 KB, 516x600 - viewed 30 times.)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 03:20:42 am by YT » Report Spam   Logged
Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5034



View Profile
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2016, 03:27:41 am »


 This is a bottle that I recently acquire and is the cheapest of all my 'SuZhou' Agate bottles


Dear YT,

So that was you who won this one. Congratulations. A bargain indeed!  Wink

Tom
Report Spam   Logged

Tom
Collecting since 1972

YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2016, 03:47:28 am »

Dear Tom,

Thank you and yes good bargain.

Cheers,
YT
Report Spam   Logged
cshapiro
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 590



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2016, 10:32:07 pm »

Wow YT - Christie's uses your bottle as an example of what to buy.
This is too big league for me I'm afraid!
I didn't even spend that much on my son's car!

Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2016, 12:20:13 am »

I bought the agates from an I.M. Chait Gallery Auction

I've seen what I think are modern reproductions for sale, but they tend to look dyed, the carving is simple, and they are usually not carved on both sides.

Joey - you had already said you thought my jade piece was old.  Now everyone is devaluing this jade that I paid a great deal for and that has provenance!

I do not think it's middle quality or a reproduction.

I will take them all to an appraiser and post the findings.


Dear Cathy,

My example is not meant to show off but rather to tell you to focus and get one good bottle first.
I thought from the way you described a few times about paying so much and having provenance that the total amount should be a lot.

Since now I understand your bottle's price tag, it will be difficult to dabble into Jade, Enamel or Agates unless modern. This is my personal thoughts.

Cheers,
YT
Report Spam   Logged
YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2016, 12:22:15 am »

Wow YT - Christie's uses your bottle as an example of what to buy.

Funny why others are not heading their advice.  Roll Eyes
Report Spam   Logged
joearp
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Female
Posts: 636


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2016, 09:31:29 am »

Beautiful Bottle YT and I agree, concentrating on adding a really fine bottle to a collection is the way to go if you can.  I have always been happy when I have done so.   
Report Spam   Logged

YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2016, 10:15:54 am »

Thank you Jo.

Although it is easier said then done.

Cheers,
YT
Report Spam   Logged
joearp
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Female
Posts: 636


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2016, 10:28:31 am »

Yes!
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: 1 [2]
  Add poll  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal