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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
August 16, 2018, 03:27:11 am
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Your Opinions on Porcelain Bottles

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Author Topic: Your Opinions on Porcelain Bottles  (Read 192 times)
cshapiro
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« on: September 12, 2016, 06:22:24 pm »

Hello!
I have acquired some porcelain bottles recently.

Here are the ones that I am pretty sure about:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204332-porcelain-snuff-bottle?in=user
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/203900-zhong-kui-porcelain-snuff-bottle

On the rest, I have no clue. They "look" old but I can't find references in my books. So I was wondering if you guys would look at them and give me your opinion. Also any help on the reign marks would be most appreciated! In particular I can't figure out the marks on the red dragon meiping shaped one or the gourd shaped underglaze blue.

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204333-birds-and-cherry-blossoms-porcelain-snuf
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204335-underglaze-blue-porcelain-snuff-bottle-j
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204338-red-dragon-meiping-snuff-bottle
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204339-melons-vines-and-butterflies-porcelain-s
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204340-gourd-shaped-dragon-and-phoenix-porcelai

« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 06:25:12 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy

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YT
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2016, 07:25:26 pm »

Hello!
I have acquired some porcelain bottles recently.

Here are the ones that I am pretty sure about:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204332-porcelain-snuff-bottle?in=user
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/203900-zhong-kui-porcelain-snuff-bottle

On the rest, I have no clue. They "look" old but I can't find references in my books. So I was wondering if you guys would look at them and give me your opinion. Also any help on the reign marks would be most appreciated! In particular I can't figure out the marks on the red dragon meiping shaped one or the gourd shaped underglaze blue.

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204333-birds-and-cherry-blossoms-porcelain-snuf
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204335-underglaze-blue-porcelain-snuff-bottle-j
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204338-red-dragon-meiping-snuff-bottle
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204339-melons-vines-and-butterflies-porcelain-s
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/204340-gourd-shaped-dragon-and-phoenix-porcelai



Dear Cathy,

I have looked through and tried my best to be fair to your efforts.
203900 Zhong Kui and 204335 Jarlet, both with apocryphal marks are only ok and worth keeping.

The rest are best sold if you have the opportunity.

Cheers,
YT
PS: Personal opinion.
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cshapiro
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2016, 08:11:53 pm »

Thanks YT!

So do you think the snuff-jar might have been a medicine jar?

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Cathy
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2016, 09:26:57 pm »

I second YT. Only 2 bottles worth to be kept. I like the Jarlet ,or actually I think its a miniature vase instead of jar , the original mouth and neck was cut off .otherwise its a really good piece.

Steven
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cshapiro
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 12:04:01 am »

Thank you Steven!

Interestingly enough I have found the red bottle's "mother" sold at Case Antiques in 2012. It's a 7" tall version with a six character Kuang Hsu mark on the base. The man I bought the miniature red vase from lives not far from the auction house. I will have to ask him if he used to own a larger version. 

http://caseantiques.com/item/lot-26-chinese-porcelain-vase-five-toe-dragons/

Regardless of whether the red one is old or not, I am fascinated by the detail and quality of the painting so I plan to keep it and find out as much as I can about it. I would really like to figure out the calligraphy on the base, if anyone could translate it.

Oh! Look what else I found:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/SUPERB-SIGNED-CHINESE-GUANGXU-CORAL-ORANGE-ENAMEL-IMPERIAL-DRAGON-SNUFF-BOTTLE-/201328184587?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 01:03:24 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 12:41:24 am »

That is a small size meiping vase .I dont think it has anything to do with bottles.

The way dragon was painted doesn't look like guangxu dragon to me, I will vote it late 20th C meiping vase , beautiful piece tho.

Steven

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cshapiro
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 01:29:57 am »

Hi Steven,

I added a link to my previous post after you posted. Sorry!

I am starting to think the red dragon bottle is Guangxu. Take a look at the red dragon wine cups here:
https://alaintruong2014.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/a-pair-of-iron-red-dragon-wine-cups-guangxu-six-character-marks-and-of-the-period/

The mystery is what is written on the base. It's not the Guangxu reign mark as all the other examples have. So that is what I need to discover!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 01:36:38 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 01:47:44 am »

that bottle sold on ebay wirh a big price is a modern fake as well . Maybe 100years later , it can be  a nice antique. It could be made in a same workshop as your meiping vase , they all have guangxu marks , but the marks are off ,. A suggestion , if you want to do some comparison , you better find some piece on reputable auction houses, not something on ebay, there are lot of scams on ebay. You can be easily fooled if you dont have any experience.

Steven
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cshapiro
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 02:25:32 am »

I did find this:
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-chinese-iron-red-dragon-snuff-bottle-19th-5677481-details.aspx

and this
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/antique-reader/catalogue-id-srantiqu10001/lot-ed62d007-4383-46ed-bd5b-a46500b14d27

The design is very close to the one on The Saleroom, but I cannot find an exact copy anywhere

Since you are Chinese, could you translate the base for me? I figured out the first character is Hao and I think the last is the symbol for Made, but I cannot decipher the middle two.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 02:27:22 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 08:48:57 am »

Dear Cathy,

Make a side by side comparison of the one from Christies and other bottles or wares, you will find the answer, You don't need to pay much attention on the marks at the moment, the painting tells story already, the one from Christine is a JiaQing bottle and only 18th-19th bottle, the rest are all modern, when you get higher level, you might need inspect more detail like the Mark, glaze color, wears, etc for confirming. But meantime , comparing the painting is already good enough.

Steven
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 10:07:00 am »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-SIGNED-CHINESE-GUANGXU-CORAL-ORANGE-ENAMEL-IMPERIAL-DRAGON-SNUFF-BOTTLE-/201328184587?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276&rmvSB=true

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/antique-reader/catalogue-id-srantiqu10001/lot-ed62d007-4383-46ed-bd5b-a46500b14d27

Cathy,

The links you provided above are nicely done very late 20th century and even 21st century bottles.  These were quite numerous on ebay a number of years back and could be had for $25 to $75 dollars or so.  Some are done better than others, but they are quite new. 

Charll

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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 11:00:03 am »

Bravo Steven,
you are right on everything. As also is YT. Charll is right in saying that they are nicely done, but under the snuff bottles point of view, the second one is horrible. Who make it should be whipped. No, sorry, I am wrong, it is not simply horrible, it is stupid. A dragon and a frog…. Incredible.
Dear Cathy, you are comparing in the same post a Christie’s bottle with an horrible thing. If you think a bit about this fact, a wise conclusion is that you should stop buying, and acquire knowledge before to start again.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 12:52:38 pm »

Hmmm the only problem I have is that I trust the seller (he sold me the red dragon, jarlet, and gourd shaped bottles) and he says he has had them since the 80s and they were acquired by the original owner in the 40s and 50s while he was working on the east coast. I am going to email him again.

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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 02:06:18 pm »

Dear Kathy,
sorry, but you are not looking it from the right side. The problem is not in trusting the seller. The key is that you must have an educated eye. Reliable sellers are not impossible to find, but before to find one you will pass through many that are not reliable at all, and at the end your garage will be full of bad things.
Kind regards
Giovanni
 
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 03:35:12 pm »

Dear Kathy,
sorry, but you are not looking it from the right side. The problem is not in trusting the seller. The key is that you must have an educated eye. Reliable sellers are not impossible to find, but before to find one you will pass through many that are not reliable at all, and at the end your garage will be full of bad things.
Kind regards
Giovanni
 

Exactly !
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