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August 22, 2017, 04:10:27 am
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Liu Qiao

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Author Topic: Liu Qiao  (Read 303 times)
cshapiro
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« on: September 09, 2016, 11:10:27 am »

Hi you guys,

I wanted to start a thread about this artist. I have spotted several bottles of his, and have read he was a contemporary of YST.

While this artists work is not as sophisticated as YST, it does appear to have some merit - mainly as continuing the work of the school? I don't know if I should call this a school, or what the school would be. Any thoughts on that?
And also do you think that YST was a student of Ye Zhongsan or another artist, or were they contemporaries?

Also I see where his work is pre-1950s, so he would be considered a middle period artist.

I particularly like the tall rectangular bottles of his - the others not so much.

What is your opinion on collecting a few pieces of this artist? In general it appears that his pieces can be purchased very reasonably, and I do like this style.

Examples of his work are here:
http://snuffbottlecollector.com/liu_qiao/liu_qiao_1.htm

And George has a bottle on the forum here:
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,700.0.html

« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 01:13:52 pm by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy

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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 12:16:34 pm »

IMO.... The painting has neither detail work or any innovation.... It's like copying some of the better artists ideas and using their colour scheme without feelings...

I won't collect any of the bottles

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

George
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 12:23:43 pm »

I agree with Pin, although Liu Qiao's warrior themed bottles are not quite as poorly painted.
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cshapiro
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 01:06:09 pm »

Yes, Pin I see what you mean. It is uninspired work, and not even a good copy. Also appears that he paints the same theme over and over again - the Qiao sisters - and since his last name was Qiao - that makes sense - another rebus perhaps? Haha
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Cathy
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 04:36:46 pm »

I must say I agree with Pin. But they are genuine at least, and if they do please you,
and you can get them reasonably, it is better than getting bad repros which aren't even genuinely from the 'classical period' of IPSBs.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

cshapiro
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 09:08:37 pm »

Ok, so I found this bottle tonight on Collector's Weekly. It doesn't belong to me - just someone else showing their bottle.
It is very interesting to me!

It appears to be signed Liu Qiao, but the painting is just like the second signature YST paintings.

Now I might be wrong about the signature. The Qiao doesn't look exact, but it's very close. 

If it is, that could mean that some of the YST second signature paintings might have been by Liu Qiao signing as YST - couldn't it?
This could be the bottle that makes that link - if it is Liu Qiao's signature that is.

 

 


* LiuQiaoCW.jpg (103.41 KB, 676x3597 - viewed 25 times.)
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 11:17:10 pm »

So I gathered up as many images as I could of the two artists and compared them side by side.

Please give me your opinions!


* YSTvsLQstudy.jpg (122.59 KB, 800x1681 - viewed 27 times.)
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Cathy
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 11:55:04 pm »

I was told before in China he was one of YST students. Good eye Cathy !
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Pat
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2016, 12:01:37 am »

Good eye Cathy !

Yes Cathy... Good eye !
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cshapiro
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2016, 12:06:35 am »

Thanks Pat and George! So I guess I will collect a bottle or two of his!
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2016, 12:38:57 am »

Actually, it could be that 柳桥 (Liu Qiao) is 永受田..... Who was a student (maybe even also a relative) of 永夀田。

Note that 永受田 and永夀田 will sounds exactly the same (both in Chinese and English)... Yong Shou Tian.

受 in Chinese means... Given to or bestow upon, so it could be that 柳桥 adopted this pen name after his graduation or upon the death of 永夀田 to remember his teacher.

My theory.... Grin

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

cshapiro
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2016, 12:56:40 am »

Thanks Pin! It's so nice to have help with the language!

That is very significant that the symbol means "given or bestowed upon."

I concur with you that Liu Qiao and the second signature of YST are the same person. It also appears he sometimes signed the first signature.

I think that bottle on Collectors Weekly is the key!!

 Grin Grin Grin



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Cathy
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2016, 01:16:28 am »

Actually, it could be that 柳桥 (Liu Qiao) is 永受田..... Who was a student (maybe even also a relative) of 永夀田。

Note that 永受田 and永夀田 will sounds exactly the same (both in Chinese and English)... Yong Shou Tian.

受 in Chinese means... Given to or bestow upon, so it could be that 柳桥 adopted this pen name after his graduation or upon the death of 永夀田 to remember his teacher.

My theory.... Grin

Pin

Well that is sure interesting indeed !  Thank you Pin..
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2016, 01:24:20 am »

Well done Cathy!

I see you are making really good job on identify artists even you dont know chinese. Amazing!
I was honored Forum detactitve badge by George for my enthusiasm of identifing unsigned bottles .and I found that you actually doing better job than me, I am sure if you know chinese better, you can do even better. I might pass my badge to you one day. Keep it up.

Even if Joey will criticize your collection one day , no worries , he has higher standard than most of us ,  Grin Cheesy just enjoy your reaserch and happy hunting.

Steven
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2016, 01:36:04 am »

Thanks Steven! I am working on stealing that badge from you!  Wink

Oh and while I'm throwing around theories - I think there is a third artist involved.

I think the very colorful ones (that usually contain a purplish blue) are not painted by either YST or LQ. I don't have any ideas yet on who painted them, but from an artists perspective, they are not by the same hand.

I'm attaching a photo of what I think is a third artist.  

Differences are:
Vivid colors
Whispy clouds (never present in other YST paintings)
More detailed hands
More detail in general
Dotted grass in the landscapes
Pointed, often blue, mountains
Usually not signed

So another mystery to solve!


* ThirdYST-compilation.jpg (79.41 KB, 310x1390 - viewed 17 times.)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 02:05:13 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

Cathy
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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2016, 01:36:44 am »

Dear Kathy,
Nothing to do with the matter discussed here, but I take the opportunity that you said that “It's so nice to have help with the language!” for asking you the following. You are a native English (better, American English) speaker I suppose, while I am not, so often when I am writing I try to pay attention so to be clear and, more important, understood. As Joey I have a particular eye to spot mistakes, but due to the fact that as said I am not a native speaker often I am in doubt if what I see as being not correct is indeed a mistake or a sort of slang/way of saying. For example, I often see this in George’s posts, but I am in doubt if it is a real mistake or a way of speaking among Americans, though not literally English.
Well, back to the reason of writing. You did write in the first post here: “I wanted to start a thread about this artist. I have spotted several bottles of his, ….”. My immediate reaction was: “HIS? It is a mistake, should it not be HIM?”. But then you repeated the same two more times, so I am wondering if in English both ways are acceptable. Just for my education.
Thank you
Kind regards
Giovanni
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cshapiro
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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2016, 01:45:11 am »

Haha Giovanni your English may be better than mine, even though it's my native language!
I have no idea on the correct grammar in that instance and so will try to look it up and give you an answer tomorrow.  Grin

Oh didn't take me that long. I love google!

Here are the rules for pronouns:
The forms he, she and they are used when a pronoun is the subject of a sentence.
The forms him, her and them are used when a pronoun is the object of a sentence.
The forms his, her, hers, their and theirs are possessive in nature. Possessives are of two kinds: possessive pronouns and possessive adjectives.

Because I was referring to a bottle that was created by him, I called it "his" bottle being the possessive form of the pronoun. You could say his bottle, the bottle of his, or a bottle by him is his. hahaha

I hope that helps!  Grin
Cathy
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 01:58:45 am by cshapiro » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 01:59:40 am »

Thanks Steven! I am working on stealing that badge from you!  Wink

Oh and while I'm throwing around theories - I think there is a third artist involved.

I think the very colorful ones (that usually contain a purplish blue) are not painted by either YST or LQ. I don't have any ideas yet on who painted them, but from an artists perspective, they are not by the same hand.

I'm attaching a photo of what I think is a third artist.  

Differences are:
Vivid colors
Whispy clouds (never present in other YST paintings)
More detailed hands
Dotted grass in the landscapes
Usually not signed

So another mystery to solve!
Please work on the badge, I guess it won"t be long even I hate let it go.  Wink
Yes , you are right ,that bottle is painted by another artist.actually the warrior theme was popular during the middle period , quite a few of artists paint it. I have seen a quite few of bottles painted like the style you just shared , but non was signed , I guess one day when you see a signed one , the mystery will be solved.

Steven
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cshapiro
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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2016, 02:11:19 am »

Steven, we have all these battle scenes before us - fight for it!
You should not let me take it from you without a battle!

You have time and experience on your side - me.... I just have enthusiasm!

 Grin Grin Grin
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Cathy
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« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2016, 11:58:39 am »

Steven, we have all these battle scenes before us - fight for it!
You should not let me take it from you without a battle!

You have time and experience on your side - me.... I just have enthusiasm!

 Grin Grin Grin

I do have my advantage, As a Chinese, I know Chinese and culture better, so you have to work harder to take it away from me. Keep it up!

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