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October 22, 2018, 08:03:26 am
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2 realgar snuff bottles

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Author Topic: 2 realgar snuff bottles  (Read 792 times)
forestman
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« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2017, 01:39:36 am »

Hi Rube and Richard,

Lovely bottles, thanks for posting them.

It's been asked before why these bottles have the yellow lines down the side and I was wondering how Steven's bottles had been worked, the Treasury books I bought are earning their money because these bottles were mould blown so the yellow lines on the sides are where the moulding lines where polished out reaching the deeper set yellow layer.

The moulds were uneven and had something like dimples in their surface so when the bottle was polished flat it went through the layers in places to reveal the different colours.

There was a time, both in the true snuff bottle period and in the 1970's when Realgar bottles were dismissed as they were considered common and had little value. In the 1970's Hugh Moss was in an exporting warehouse in China where there were  Realgar bottles piled together with no protection in crates and a warehouse worker was seen stirring them with his hand with no respect for them. Red overlay bottles were viewed the same way as they were so common, no matter how high the quality of the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.
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pookles
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« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2017, 03:48:01 am »

Hi Adrian,

Great books! I have 2 volumes, organics and porcelain. I'd really like to get the glass and jade volumes too. I think they're the best books I have - the detail they go into is really good. I've been reading them straight through like a traditional book and trying to resist the temptation to go ahead and look at all the amazing bottles. I think I get the most enjoyment out of them that way.

Really like the first bottle you posted btw. I've also heard that type described as realgar - probably in Moss's literature somewhere...

Best,
Luke
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Luke
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« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2017, 04:33:08 am »

Hi Luke,

The glass volumes are very good and I did post in an answer to George that the Glass volumes were being offered on ebay at a low starting price. They went for 115 which was a good buy for whoever got them.

I have to admit it was straight to the pictures for me  Cheesy

Regards, Adrian.
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Rube
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« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2017, 06:15:56 am »

Richard,
This is a lovely bottle!

Adrian, the description about the yellow lines and mounds makes great sense, thanks for enlightening us.

Cheers,
Rube
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pookles
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« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2017, 07:44:50 am »

Hi Adrian,

I did indeed bid on that one, but I bid an hour early as had to go to work the next day - I got outbid by one dollar. Yes whoever grabbed that got a nice bargain!

Hi Richard & Rube,

Really lovely bottles! And more in keeping with more standard examples I've seen. I especially like the cute shape of yours Rube. In the past I've bid on a few of these myself, but so far they have got away from me at auction.

Best,
Luke
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:48:13 am by pookles » Report Spam   Logged

Luke
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« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2017, 08:41:13 am »


The moulds were uneven and had something like dimples in their surface so when the bottle was polished flat it went through the layers in places to reveal the different colours.


Thanks for sharing your insights Adrian, and it could be the case. When you said moulds, did you mean the bottle was jointed by two moulds ? or one mould as whole piece, then hollowed out later?

I assume that if the yellow line is the joint, then it should be made out of two moulds, but when I see the continuously swirl pattern of the mouth and base, I can't tell there is any joints.

I am always fascinated by how the craftsman make those glass bottles, wish that I can learn more about it.

Best,

Steven


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forestman
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« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2017, 10:30:57 am »

Hi Steven,

The mould would have been in two pieces which were placed around molten glass that had been gathered on the blowing tube and the glass then expanded by blowing to fill the mould. So the only mould marks would have been on the outside of the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2017, 11:00:22 am »

Adrian, thank you for confirming my supposition at the beginning of this post that the old ones are mould made. It was not just a lucky guess I do have a few years experience of making articles in molten glass but just not snuff bottles.  Grin However I do not agree with you the red casing is put on by rolling them in frit, you can clearly see the old bottles are quite different from your bottle which was rolled in frit.

 Regards Jason
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forestman
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« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2017, 11:26:44 am »

Hi Jason,

I did say earlier that Steven's bottles were made by a more complex process and having then found what was written in the Treasury books about being blown into uneven moulds it all becomes very easy to understand and Rube's and Richard's bottles were made in the same way Smiley

I would love to have the opportunity to work with molten glass or to go on a glass blowing course but can't see myself having the time just  yet.

Regards, Adrian.
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2017, 03:05:40 pm »

Adrian, if ever you find the time find yourself a weekend course, I found one just out side Bath and enjoyed it that much I had a career change to work in glass, It was most satisfying.

Regards Jas.
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Rube
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« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2017, 03:38:00 pm »

Jason,

That sounds amazing, I'm jealous!
Cheers,
Rube
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Steven
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« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2017, 05:25:38 pm »

Hi Steven,

The mould would have been in two pieces which were placed around molten glass that had been gathered on the blowing tube and the glass then expanded by blowing to fill the mould. So the only mould marks would have been on the outside of the bottle.

Regards, Adrian.

Thanks Adrian for your explanation which make perfect sense to me. Wink

-Jason, I am jealous too, glass making is like a magic to me, I wish I could spend some time to experience it.

Have a wonderful weekend guys!

Steven
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forestman
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« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2017, 02:14:29 am »

Hi Jason,

I hadn't realised you were UK based.

I did have a look online and found a course in Dorset which is close to me so I might have to book myself on it and see where the experience takes me !

Regards, Adrian.
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2017, 12:20:08 pm »

 Rube, Steven, if ever you get the opportunity to try working with glass please give it a try you wont regret it.

Adrian, I live in north west Wales on the Mawddach estuary. Snowdonia is a lovely part of Wales.

Now to return to the Realgar bottles, Steven thanks for starting this topic and showing what Realgar looks like I had no idea, it is so variable. This topic has given me the opportunity to fathom out how the old realgar bottles  were made. Apart from   the multi coloured base which is relatively easy to achieve, the realey difficult part is getting the two top layers to coat the base so thin. Please excuse me I have something that needs my urgent attention. I will complete what I was going to say later today. Regards Jason. 
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Jungle Jas
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« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2017, 02:25:12 pm »

I do apologise for dashing off  I don't think I have ever had to do that before.

As I was saying there is not one layer on the outside of a Realgar bottle but two very thin ones. Look very carefully were the red layer has been polished/ ground down to the base and you can see an equally thin bright yellow layer of glass. This I have never noticed before as I hadn't had the benefit of such detailed images to look at.

As to how this was achieved the only way it is possible to get such a thin layer of glass is to roll the molten base coat in yellow glass dust put in the furnace to melt the yellow glass  and do the same with the final coat of red. Then you could blow it into the mould. Any takers for that idea or does any one have a better Idea.  Regards Jason.

   
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Rube
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« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2017, 02:39:08 pm »

Jason,
There is a glass blowing Pavillion near where I used to live and I think they offer workshops, I'll have to check it out! By the way, is "frit" larger than dust?
Luke , I'm glad you like my bottle.

Cheers,
Rube
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« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2017, 02:53:49 am »

Adrian, I happen to be in Dorset today, Weymouth and I noticed they have Glass courses there, is that were you were thinking of going.

 Regards Jason.
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forestman
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« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2017, 07:48:42 am »

Hi Jason,

As I recall it was a bit more rural than Weymouth.

I have a soft spot for Weymouth as it was a stopping off point on boating holidays to Dartmouth and Salcombe.

You may have a point in the thin layers on Realgar bottles being formed by rolling in coloured glass dust. I have been wondering how they get such thin layers on multi coloured overlays which aren't as thin as the layers on the Realgar bottles.

Regards, Adrian.
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« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2017, 05:42:01 am »

Rube, yes you can buy frit in various sizes and is much bigger. I hope this helps you to understand the process which can be difficult to get too grips with unless you have seen some one work in molten glass.

Regards Jason.
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Steven
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« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2017, 02:24:18 pm »

Let us keep the post going Cheesy

Here I am sharing another Realgar or glass imitating Jasper, The colors are close to typical  realgar bottle, but the shape and pattern are not quite so common.

I will let the experts to have their comments.

Thanks!

Steven



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« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 05:33:14 pm by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

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