General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Adrian recently shared this wonderful Yan Yutian panelled bottle

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
April 24, 2018, 09:33:14 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Downloads Gallery Staff List Login Register  

2 realgar snuff bottles

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Add poll  |  Print  
Author Topic: 2 realgar snuff bottles  (Read 708 times)
OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1091


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2017, 08:06:19 am »

Dear Steven,

Thank you for sharing the realgar bottles. They are just superb !

Inn Bok

Report Spam   Logged
forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 619


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2017, 10:20:34 am »

Continuing this thread by posting a recent purchase as I have been wanting a Realgar bottle for some time and whilst it's not of the standard of the others it will do for now ! I assume it was intended to imitate Realgar but was just described as "unusual" !

Glass imitating Realgar of slightly compressed rounded form with a flat foot. 58 mm high. The stopper is jade with a glass collar but doesn't fit the opening so is not original.

Regards, Adrian.


* P9130655.jpg (82.99 KB, 575x810 - viewed 12 times.)

* P9130657.jpg (87.49 KB, 656x810 - viewed 6 times.)

* P9130658.jpg (90.88 KB, 810x743 - viewed 8 times.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:22:56 am by forestman » Report Spam   Logged

Jungle Jas
Full Member
***
Posts: 126


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2017, 10:42:41 am »

I would love to show you a realgar bottle but I can't get my hands on one! To my mind the first two bottles show that they were moulded bottles with red glass overlay  and when polished the yellow underneath shows through. Or am I wrong.
Report Spam   Logged
Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2017, 01:09:59 pm »

Dear Adrian,

Thank you for sharing such a interesting bottle!

General speaking, the glass imitating  realgar bottles are yellow and red  swirled glass bottles, sometime there are green or blue colors added as well.

So I would call your bottle clear and red swirled glass snuff bottle or glass imitating agate?( I am not quite sure.Smiley).

I will let other experts have their comments. Anyway, I like your bottle, nice shape, and well done.

Best.

Steven



* a_swirled_glass_snuff_bottle_imperial_glassworks_beijing_1740-1850_d5658768g.jpg (45.61 KB, 824x1024 - viewed 7 times.)

* 537f53b2245c68266d9c78a689f30eeb.jpg (403.63 KB, 3200x3200 - viewed 5 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 619


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 02:09:30 pm »

Hi Jason,

The process thought to have been used was fritting where a base colour was picked up with the blowing tube and that was then rolled over shards of coloured glass. The frits of coloured glass are then rolled into the surface of the base glass and incorporated into the base colour.

It's clear to see in the following pictures of another Realgar bottle of mine. If you look at the neck you can see the red colour is only on the surface, it doesn't extend through the base colour. It's also clear where the base has been formed by shaping it through grinding which has left just the base colour left.

Stevens bottles seem to have been made by a more complex manner.

Regards, Adrian.


* P9130660.jpg (76.1 KB, 609x810 - viewed 7 times.)

* P9130661.jpg (80.1 KB, 810x675 - viewed 10 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 619


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2017, 02:32:13 pm »

Hi Steven,

Good to see you posting, hope all is as well with you as it can be !

Although the base colour of my bottle is not a standard Realgar colour the red coloured areas have a very distinctive colouring that is very much as you would find on a more normal Realgar bottle.

They are also frits of glass that have been rolled onto the surface, you can see when looking into the bottle that their colour doesn't go all the way through the base colour so they aren't swirled glass which would have the colour going all the way through.

Somewhere in my ever expanding collection of books and catalogues I have seen another similar to mine described as imitating Realgar, I'll post it if I find it  Smiley

I now have a couple of glass imitating agate and swirled glass bottles which I will post at some time.

Regards, Adrian.
Report Spam   Logged

Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 12:46:13 am »

Dear Adrian,

I did notice the red color on your bottle are on the surface, not mixed with the other colors which you might be right about it not being swirled glass bottle .

But I am still not convinced that it being a realgar bottle, I would love to see the  description of catalogue re another similar bottle you have seen.

If you take a look of the mouth of my realgar bottle, you can see all realgar bottles belongs swirled glass bottle.
Best,

Steven


* IMG_4293.jpg (145.51 KB, 800x324 - viewed 17 times.)

* index (6).jpg (163.35 KB, 900x909 - viewed 10 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5136



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2017, 01:02:31 am »

Guys,

Realgar glass (as defined by snuff bottle collectors) is always swirled glass, not an overlay. There is a borderline group of bottles where the darker swirl covers more or less one entire face and is carved cameo-style with a decorative motif. Some of these can look similar to an overlay glass bottle.

Tom
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:27:24 am by Wattana » Report Spam   Logged

Tom
Collecting since 1972

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 619


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2017, 01:50:50 am »

Hi Steven and Tom,

I guess for me anything that resembles Realgar counts as a Realgar bottle, no matter how it's made.

It is very interesting to see the mouths of Steven's bottles because they all seem to have been made slightly differently. The left hand bottle in the first picture looks like it has been cased in a few layers of different colours whereas the right one looks more swirled. The blackish swirl on the last bottle's mouth extends out and down the neck of the bottle and seems more like a thin thread of darker colour.

There is a bottle in the J J Collection, Part IV, which has been fritted. "What is unusual here is the use of transparent glass which has been rolled into the surface of the more usual, opaque orange colour." It is more brown and orange without any red in it.

The bottles below are from the Blanche B Exstein collection and number 19 is a close relative of my bottle. "An unusual sandwiched Realgar-splashed bottle, 1730-1840. The greyish-white glass accented with feathery splashes of brilliant red and orange." Lot 18 is also described as splashed but I would think both are fritted.

Regards, Adrian.


* P9140662.jpg (152.5 KB, 739x810 - viewed 26 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Wattana
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 5136



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2017, 02:31:50 am »

Hi Adrian,

Well, I guess they come in all shapes, colours and sizes.  Personally I would not call nos. 18 and 19 in your picture realgar glass. The last two are what I described in my last post as borderline examples.

Tom
Report Spam   Logged

Tom
Collecting since 1972

forestman
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 619


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2017, 03:01:53 am »

Hi Tom,

Here's another shape, colour and size.

The first bottle I bought described as Realgar. 60 mm high with an indented foot and oval footrim with a slightly inset flat foot. Whoever made it had dodgy eyes, it's a bit lop sided but then so is the other example which is from J and J, Part IV. That one is described as based on a Han Dynasty pottery form taken from the silkworm cocoon. It's far smaller than mine at 42 mm. Bloch had a very similar swirled bottle but unlike the J and J example it wasn't described as "Unusual Realgar".

Regards, Adrian.


* P9140664.jpg (98.07 KB, 674x810 - viewed 9 times.)

* P9140665.jpg (95.29 KB, 810x655 - viewed 6 times.)

* P9140666.jpg (96.42 KB, 810x582 - viewed 3 times.)

* P9140667.jpg (138.97 KB, 810x793 - viewed 11 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2017, 08:11:53 am »

Dear Adrian,

Thank you for sharing the description and the catalogue, I do think No 19 is very similar with your bottle.

Also thank you for sharing the last two bottles, I would call those two glass imitating jasper instead of realgar bottles. However, the description can be varied by different collectors, but that is way I will call them.Smiley I wish some other members here can have their insights shared.

Best ,

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 510


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2017, 08:19:06 am »

Adrian,
Thanks for adding to this thread. If I could narrow down to one favorite category (which I can't) glass imitating realgar would be at the top of the list. I like all the different variations and will add that Eldreds last auction had a very similar example to yours that was pale yellow and red, sorry I don't have the lot number handy.
Steven,
Are examples with a little green and brown mixed in with the yellows and reds considered imitating jasper?

Cheers,
Rube
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2017, 09:40:30 am »

Dear Rube,

In order to know which kind of bottles are glass imitating realgar  or jasper, we should know what the realgar and Jasper look like.

Here pls find some photos of realgar,  I would say there is a photo with realgar with quartz is pretty much like Adrian's bottle, Maybe that one should belongs to that category.

Steven


* orpiment-with-realgar.jpg (121.04 KB, 900x698 - viewed 7 times.)

* realgar41499d.jpg (81.4 KB, 800x600 - viewed 6 times.)

* il_340x270.1108923285_d8d1.jpg (26.05 KB, 340x270 - viewed 5 times.)

* 18287730723_4a4a97f99a_m.jpg (23.02 KB, 240x164 - viewed 5 times.)

* 1020g-2-24-lb-1-2pcs-Orpiment-font-b-Realgar-b-font-Intergrowth-Rock-Specimen-China.jpg (48.97 KB, 580x435 - viewed 4 times.)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:49:46 am by Steven » Report Spam   Logged

Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2017, 09:45:56 am »

Here are some photos of Jasper.


* jasper1.jpg (34.58 KB, 450x318 - viewed 4 times.)

* jasper2.jpg (22.8 KB, 450x450 - viewed 4 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 510


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2017, 08:18:26 pm »

Steven,

Those images are helpful for identification purposes.  It would be unlike me not to follow suit with anything Adrian leads, so I'll add one myself!  I'm thinking this is a glass bottle imitating jasper, (of compressed form?) resting on a flat foot, and measuring 1 15/16" w/o stopper.  Thoughts anyone?  And as always, any clues to dating this bottle are greatly appreciated!  I know is that it is pre 1942, but thought because of the wide mouth and short stature, that it might have some age?

Cheers,

Rube.


* FullSizeRender imitating jasper 2.jpg (66.65 KB, 480x640 - viewed 9 times.)

* FullSizeRender imitating jasper 3.jpg (69.23 KB, 480x640 - viewed 7 times.)

* FullSizeRender imitating jasper 1.jpg (77.89 KB, 480x640 - viewed 10 times.)

* FullSizeRender imitating jasper 4.jpg (70.05 KB, 480x640 - viewed 7 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2017, 08:41:37 pm »

Dear Rube,

Sorry for the confusion Wink Wink it could be the examples I provided.

The bottle you shared is a typical realgar bottle, both the combination of the colors and the bottle shape are all classical. I would date the bottle the same as the first two I shared at first place,1780-1860.

Best,

Steven

 
Report Spam   Logged

Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 510


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2017, 08:54:52 pm »

Steven,

That's great!  At least I posted this bottle on the proper thread then!
Thanks for the clarification, and the help with the bottle's timeframe.

Cheers,

Rube.
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

richy88
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2287



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 09:08:15 pm »

Hi guys

Just wanted to share a realgar glass bottle in my collection.

Enjoy!


Richard


* 405JPG.jpg (51.56 KB, 540x720 - viewed 15 times.)

* 405aJPG.jpg (49.9 KB, 540x720 - viewed 9 times.)

* 405bJPG.jpg (50.16 KB, 540x720 - viewed 8 times.)

* 405cJPG.jpg (48.91 KB, 540x720 - viewed 9 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Richard from sunny Singapore
Evaluate Educate Entertain
Steven
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3995



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2017, 10:43:38 pm »

Dear Richard,

Thanks for sharing, Love the bottle, elegant shape, rich colors!

Cheers!

Steven
Report Spam   Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Add poll  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal