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November 20, 2017, 12:54:23 pm
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Peasants/Farmers and Scholars Garden

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Author Topic: Peasants/Farmers and Scholars Garden  (Read 1309 times)
George
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« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2016, 06:34:00 pm »

Probably could have waited until I have everything laid out properly to present, but am just so thrilled to finally have figured out this peddler bottle, just had to post to success !

It will take just a little time to put it all together so as to present the information properly, but pretty sure nailed it  Cheesy

I think you will be surprised !
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 08:08:13 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

cshapiro
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« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2016, 08:37:33 pm »

Now that's a snuff bottle cliffhanger!
 Wink
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Cathy
George
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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2016, 01:57:08 pm »

As Steven said, we have never seen this style of figure painting before, especially the eyes.   All of us also know the flowers and "lou" ( lake Tai ) style for a Gongshi stone was unfamiliar for Middle Period artists.

I took Stevens advice and looked through "Dating Chinese Porcelain, Facial Features and Adornments".  Q14 category was very interesting with the noses in the shape of a W, and the big ears shaped like a C with big contour dating to about 1820.
 
The overall caricaturish figural style can be found on many 18/19th century famille verte wares, yet also seen within many Ye Family figural paintings. That is when I realized which Ye Family member could be influenced by this style seen on Early famille verte pieces..  I bet some of you just guessed it.. Ye Bengqi ! Who also specialized in this exact same style of chrysanthemum painting, and as well the lou style Gongshi stone that can be mostly found on his enameled pieces. But also within this #276a inside painted example below and as well, #239a, and 282 from within Autumn 1984 ICSBS Journal for just a few examples.

The design is typical of the Palace workshops from the mid-to late-Qianlong reign, although the standard of painting is less exacting than many of the bottles from that time. These sorts of designs were copied by Ye Bengqi in Beijing during the 1930s. He spent considerable time in the Palace Museum studying early enameled glass wares.

My vote today is for Ye Bengqi.

I am having some difficulty figuring out if bamboo or not. I think it may be, and then as Steven mentioned, it is a bit confusing due to the unprepared surface.




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« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 02:02:46 pm by George » Report Spam   Logged

cshapiro
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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2016, 02:30:39 pm »

Wow congratulations George! Thanks also for the book reference on porcelain facial features!
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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2016, 02:38:57 pm »

Dear George,

    Wonderful deductive reasoning. Ye Bengqi was visiting the Palace Museum from 1925 when it opened, till 1935, when the Chinese govt 'temporarily closed' the museum, packed up everything and moved the vast majority south, first to Nanjing, then onward to Chongqing in Sichuan, to keep the Imperial collections out of the hands of the Japanese invaders.
Bengqi had started learning to enamel in 1923.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Steven
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« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2016, 08:03:06 pm »

Dear George,

I am not convinced that bottles was painted by Ye Bengqi. As I know Ye Bengqi's painting style is very unique. His painting might not be the most artistic in the Ye family, but his stroke is the neatest in Ye family, His every single stroke is tidy and organized, not only on inside painting, also on enamel painting. But I can't see this on the Beggars bottle. You might say the motif is different, but the way or the habit of the painting won't change much even with different motif. also the color scheme is different from Ye Bengqi's as well.

Attached please find a typical Ye Bengqi bottle, see how neat the stroke its, I have never seen any old masters have this kind of neatness, in an other words, because of the neatness, his painting has less artistic look than the rest of Ye family's. Its just my understanding of Ye BengQi. I don't see much connections between your bottle and Ye Bengqi.

Please don't give up, Keep digging, you will find the best candidate one day.Smiley

Steven


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George
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« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2016, 08:08:33 am »

I know your a busy guy lately so appreciate you commenting on this one Steven.

I did look at the example you shared and many others..

I will continue to dig for other possible candidates, but not ready to exclude Ye Bengqi from the list ..

Tough one !

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« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2016, 09:27:56 am »

Dear George,

    I have to say I agree with Steven.
Best,
Joey
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George
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« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2016, 10:53:19 am »

I do understand and see the comparison, and quite honestly the "lou" Gongshi stone is not a perfect match as the example to the bottle I shared from the journal.. Yet Ye Bengqi painted inside painting and enamel on glass that consistently show this "lou" style Gongshi stone.  The inside painted bottle posted previously from the journal is much nicer painted Gongshi as you both have noted in regards to the style/detail ..  But I can not help but believe there is a Ye influence or someone close to the Family here. 

I am listening to you guys.. Truly I am !

The hunt continues, but can not help but take Ye Bengqi along for the ride with me for a little while longer Cheesy

I really am having fun researching this one... !  Wink 

Thanks guys !
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AntPeople
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« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2016, 08:36:11 pm »

Hi George :

I have asked around and no one think its Ye BQ.... but the bottle is confirm old.....

Also another interesting point....

one side of the bottle is begging for food
the other side is 180 degree different..... wealth and full bloom of flower....

very interesting bottle.

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

George
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« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2016, 02:08:17 am »

Hi George :

I have asked around and no one think its Ye BQ.... but the bottle is confirm old.....

Also another interesting point....

one side of the bottle is begging for food
the other side is 180 degree different..... wealth and full bloom of flower....

very interesting bottle.

Pin

Thank you for checking around Pin... Now I can exclude Ye Bingqi..

When you say the bottle is old. You are just talking about the actual bottle, not necessarily the painting, correct ?

I do not know if they are in the act of begging, or just beggars, but interestingly in addition to your "wealth and full bloom of flower,  I found this. The Chrysanthemum(菊花) signifies intellectual accomplishments, cleansing qualities, and longevity of life.

Thank you very much for asking around Pin !
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