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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 25, 2017, 08:48:35 pm
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Peasants/Farmers and Scholars Garden

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Author Topic: Peasants/Farmers and Scholars Garden  (Read 1254 times)
cshapiro
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« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2016, 08:36:43 am »

This has been a most educational thread. What a wonderful read about Gongshi!

I rather foolishly didn't realize the stones depicted on the inside painted bottles had any significance, but now I see what a tremendous impact they had!

I do think the stone on your bottle resembles the Taihu stone Gongshi from Lake Tai.

What I think is significant about your bottle is the exaggeration of everything - from the caricature or lampooning of the beggars to the impossible natural configuration of the scholar's stone.

The cartoon began in the middle ages, and satire, especially political satire was popular at the end of the 18th century.

Keep digging! Because as they say, "the truth always eventually comes out."
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« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2016, 08:49:26 am »



What I think is significant about your bottle is the exaggeration of everything - from the caricature or lampooning of the beggars to the impossible natural configuration of the scholar's stone.


Joey thought the same exact thing.. Must just be me because I am not getting the exaggeration.
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Wattana
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2016, 08:53:06 am »

George,

I never knew there were four distinctly different categories of Gonshi stone. In fact this has been a most interesting thread altogether - as Cathy says, educational!

Going back to the parallel discussion about beggars being organized, this is not only to be found in the Far East. Up till the late 1700s Scotland had a legally recognized "beggar class" which was even issued its own uniform! These colourful characters appear in some of Walter Scott's novels of the time.  

Tom  
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Tom
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2016, 10:00:41 am »



Going back to the parallel discussion about beggars being organized, this is not only to be found in the Far East. Up till the late 1700s Scotland had a legally recognized "beggar class" which was even issued its own uniform! These colourful characters appear in some of Walter Scott's novels of the time.  
 

That is really interesting Tom.. !  Our beggars here in the States are not required to wear certain clothing, or are they known for carrying specific utensils, nor are they legally required by the government to speak and act in a certain way depending on what type of beggars they are..

Here, our beggars simply hit the Goodwill for any old clothing. They act any way they like, when ever they like, and the only notable utensil is the carrying of beer or wine bottles.   I suppose the use of shopping carts rather than baskets can aid in ID'ing them as well  Cheesy.  I suppose they are colorful characters in their own way!

They certainly do not have any of the positive attributes that Pin mentioned of Beijing beggars, or yours from Scotland  !
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« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2016, 11:25:29 am »


 I suppose the use of shopping carts rather than baskets can aid in ID'ing them as well  Cheesy.  I suppose they are colorful characters in their own way!


 Cheesy   Cheesy   Cheesy
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cshapiro
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« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2016, 12:47:00 pm »

Interesting video on Christie's that just came out today.
This collector has some fabulous scholar's rocks.

http://www.christies.com/features/Asian-art-was-inside-me-somehow-Marcus-Flacks-7634-3.aspx?sc_lang=en&cid=EM_EMLcontent0414458D_0&cid=DM54154&bid=61338446
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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2016, 04:16:17 am »

Dear Cathy,

      Thank you for the link to the Flacks collection.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2016, 09:50:53 pm »

I have a book on the Flacks Chinese furniture collection, but never knew of the scholar rocks until now. Thanks for the link Cathy!

Tom
PS: Also never knew he lived in Hampstead - just a short distance from my London base!
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« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2016, 01:52:37 am »

But is the bottle quartz crystal?

I was just informed that I let a natural quartz crystal bottle go and I completely missed the fact that it was quartz rather than glass...

So decided to come back and have a good look at this one again...

One piece of good news is that turns out this one is in natural quartz !  The rest of the good news is for the buyer who scored a natural quartz bottle that I let slip by me !   Wink

Hard to believe I made such an error !!   But seriously, big congrats to the forum member here who got a nice bargain for a natural quartz bottle !
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« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2016, 01:59:11 am »


I can't comment on the artist, style of painting, or the obviously extreme poverty of the two figures. But is the bottle quartz crystal? I ask because I see what looks like an iridescent patch near one shoulder.


Sorry about that George.
So my hunch was correct?
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« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2016, 02:00:59 am »


I can't comment on the artist, style of painting, or the obviously extreme poverty of the two figures. But is the bottle quartz crystal? I ask because I see what looks like an iridescent patch near one shoulder.


Sorry about that George.
So my hunch was correct?

Nothing to be sorry about.. Heck, really happy for the fellow collector here who got the other bottle...

And yes, you were correct about this one ! 
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« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2016, 02:56:17 am »

George, you already sold this bottle?
Wow that was fast!
And I didn't even know it was for sale!
 Cry
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« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2016, 09:29:04 am »

George, you already sold this bottle?
Wow that was fast!
And I didn't even know it was for sale!
 Cry

No, I did not sell this one, and don't plan on it...  I am talking about another bottle...
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« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2016, 12:31:53 pm »

All,

George was referring to the sale of this Tang Tzi Chuan: http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3020.msg40633.html#msg40633


Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2016, 04:33:53 pm »

For Joey...



* joey.jpg (166.52 KB, 591x583 - viewed 14 times.)
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2016, 08:12:21 pm »

Just adding this Ye Zhongsan painting here because it shares what Joey described as caricaturish in style that the men are painted within this continuous scene of Zhong Kui riding on a donkey. Same caricaturish style as the beggars on mine.

This is the first I have seen where the men are painted in this same way. Actually, some real similarities that also include the very well defined hands and feet.



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« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2016, 04:22:28 am »

Dear George,
 
     Do you think the quartz bottle with the horses and landscape is an unsigned Tang Zichuan?
That would be great. Does Steven think it is, as well?
Regardless, I love the bottle.
I have it down at the moment as a Middle Period bottle in quartz, artist unknown.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2016, 04:51:28 am »

Dear George,
 
     Do you think the quartz bottle with the horses and landscape is an unsigned Tang Zichuan?
That would be great. Does Steven think it is, as well?
Regardless, I love the bottle.
I have it down at the moment as a Middle Period bottle in quartz, artist unknown.
Best,
Joey

My best guess is Gui XiangGu or Ma Shaoxuan, and I want to lean towards MSX, but no, I do not think Tang Zichuan .

I do not believe Steven ever took a guess.
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3053.0.html

Glad it arrived safely, and that you like it... It is a very nice one !
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« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2016, 03:42:19 pm »

Dear George,

      Then I misunderstood Charll's post earlier.
I will compare it to my Gui Xianggu examples (6) and my Ma Shaoxuan examples (24), and let you know if I think one compares. YF Yang could not decide who the artist was, and suggested that there might be two different artists.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2016, 04:52:29 pm »

Dear George,

      Then I misunderstood Charll's post earlier.
I will compare it to my Gui Xianggu examples (6) and my Ma Shaoxuan examples (24), and let you know if I think one compares. YF Yang could not decide who the artist was, and suggested that there might be two different artists.
Best,
Joey

There was quite a bit of comparisons here also Joey..
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,3053.0.html
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