The Gathering of the Dragons

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Richard,

      I love the examples with flanking (opposed) archaistic dragons. Your group are very fine.
Thank you for posting them,
Joey

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Joey,
yes it is correct, either a plain blue glazed vase and a vase decorated with many shades of cobalt blue, like the snuff bottles that you collect, are monochromes. You can also say that your b&W bottles have a monochromatic decoration. It is the same.
From Wikipedia (not because it is the best, just because it is at hand to anyone):
Monochrome: Monochrome[1] describes paintings, drawings, design, or photographs in one color or values of one color.[2] A monochromatic object or image reflects colors in shades of limited colors or hues. Images using only shades of grey (with or without black or white) are called grayscale or black-and-white.
Black and White: Black and white, often abbreviated B/W or B&W, and hyphenated black-and-white when used as an adjective, is any of several monochrome forms in visual arts.
Black-and-white images are not usually starkly contrasted black and white. They combine black and white in a continuum producing a range of shades of gray
Kind regards,
Giovanni

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Giovanni,

     You have taught me yet another bit of knowledge. I thought monochrome had to be only one colour.  I didn't realise that the term could be used that way.
Thank you,
Shabbat Shalom
Joey

[joearp]

Love these Dragon Bottles Richard.  Thanks so much for sharing this thread with all of us.  The ICSBS had a wonderful article on Dragon Bottles a few years ago.  Those who are members might want to go to the archives to check the article out.  It was in the Autumn 2000 Issue.   At auction a few years ago I purchased a great deal of old Journals and have learned much from studying them.   

[richy88]

Thanks for your compliments!

The next set consists of the following bottles:

A green inkstone bottle carved with two dragons flying amidst clouds.

A chalcedony bottle of pale translucent background carved using the green skin of the stone with a protruding dragon chasing a pearl.

A glass overlay bottle on yellow ground carved with two dragons in black.

Enjoy!


Richard

[cshapiro]

Love these Dragon Bottles Richard.  Thanks so much for sharing this thread with all of us.  The ICSBS had a wonderful article on Dragon Bottles a few years ago.  Those who are members might want to go to the archives to check the article out.  It was in the Autumn 2000 Issue.   At auction a few years ago I purchased a great deal of old Journals and have learned much from studying them.   

I am enjoying this thread so much, thanks for posting these Richard! The one in the middle is my favorite of these - it is a dramatic bottle!

I have a blue overlay glass bottle with a design similar to the end bottles on your last post, and I would very much like to read more about these, but I don't have access to this journal. Does anyone have other suggestions on where I could read up on them?

I'm not even sure what to call them. I have found them referred to as hydras, chilongs, che lungs, chi dragons and dragons.

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Richard, all,
here we see how taste is individual. I was posting a short comment yesterday, after having seen your last post, saying that I particularly like the bottle on the left, and then the one on the right, but I don’t like the middle one. Now, after reading the post of Cshapiro, I take the opportunity to say why. Regardless the quality, which can even be of the very top, I find that type of bottles garish, and I am even wondering if it is worth to call it “snuff bottle”. If one tells me that it is a decorative object, then fine, it is a very nice object, but I don’t think that it should be placed in the snuff bottle category. I could understand if it were much bigger, meant to be a table bottle. Then, no problem. But with that size, it is not a table bottle. So can one imagine to carry it in the purse? To handle it to take snuff? It is not only matter of taste in this case in my opinion.
Kind regards
Giovanni

[Wattana]

Dear Giovanni,

     I agree with your order of choices. I too like the bottle at left most, followed by the one at right, and the one in middle last. As a fan of 'shibui' I also find the centre bottle slightly garish. But I have to disagree with your questioning whether it should be called a snuff bottle.
     Let me give you a parallel example of another personal utilitarian accessory of often high value - the cigarette lighter. At the height of the fashion for smoking between the 1920s and 1960s, many fancy and expensive designs were produced. Some were slim and smooth, made for slipping easily into a pocket. Others were large, heavy and ornate, clearly made for show on a table. Someone collecting vintage lighters today would have no problem calling all of them 'lighters', because their ultimate function was the same.
     Coming back to the bottles in Richard's last photo, the middle one still functions perfectly well as a container of snuff. The mouth is correctly shaped to seal properly when stoppered, and I assume it is reasonably well hollowed internally to accept snuff powder. I cannot describe it as a vase, or simply as a carved piece of artwork, because its primary purpose as a snuff bottle is obvious to me and overrides other descriptions.

Regards,
Tom

[YT]

Dear Richard,

I as Giovanni and Tom likes the left Duanstone. Do you think this is Songhua stone?

Cheers,
YT

[richy88]

Hi all

Thank you for your comments and compliments!

I tend to agree with Tom that while the bottle with the extruding dragon design is more ornamental than practical, it is still a snuff bottle. Although it may not be practical to carry it around for fear of the damaging the carving, it is really a matter of personal choice. In any case, it is one of those that may fall under the 'cabinet pieces' as described by Lilla Perry. Also to note is that the habit of snuff taking has been fading away in the late 19th/early 20th century and many snuff bottles were made as objects of art rather than to serve its original functional purpose.

Just to add, the bottle is quite well hollowed. So it can indeed serve it's function to hold snuff, if required. Attached is the photo of the other side of the bottle.

Regards.


Richard

[richy88]

Hi YT

No. This inkstone is from the Tao river (洮河) located in the Gansu Province (甘肃省). It is therefore sometime known as the Taoyan (洮砚).

This type of inkstone is one of famous four inkstones in China. The other three are Duanyan (端砚), Sheyan (歙砚) and Dengni Yan (澄泥砚).

Although not as popular as Duanyan or Sheyan, Taoyan is considered the most precious of them all. The reason is that it is very difficult to mine and the stone supply is scarce. It is therefore usually used as a tribute for the imperial court. The mining of Taoyan goes back to more than a thousand years. The earliest record was in the Tang Dynasty by the famous calligrapher Liu Gongquan (柳公权) in his 'Discussion on Inkstones" 《论砚》article, whereby he made a comparison of the different type of inkstones.

Unlike the Duanyan or the Sheyan which are deep purplish brown in colour, the Taoyan is dark olive green in comparison which is also it's unique characteristic. It has a Moh scale of 3.1 slightly harder than the Duanyan which has a reading of 2.9.

On a side note, the last type of inkstone, the Dengni Yan is not exactly a stone but rather an inkstone make of clay and fired, just like the Yixing Zisha  pottery clay.

For your information.

Regards.


Richard

[Wattana]

Thanks Richard,

I have learned something new about inkstones!
So which is considered the blackest of them all? And is Dengni Yan the one mostly used for grinding into ink?

Regards,
Tom

[richy88]

Hi Tom

Consider it a crash course for Chinese inkstone! 

The darkest should be Duanyan.

No, that is the ink stick usually make from a combination of coal, smoked pine and gelatin.

The Dengni Yan is like pottery, the clay are fired and when dried, it hardened and therefore can be used as an inkstone.

Regards.


Richard

[Wattana]

Consider it a crash course for Chinese inkstone! 

Exactly that! 

[YT]

Dear Richard,

Your crash course is both informative and exciting. Now I have to open my eyes bigger for the various types. Could we have the other three types displayed here for a better learning experience?

Cheers,
YT

[Wattana]

Could we have the other three types displayed here for a better learning experience?

I think this is a worthy topic for a new and separate post.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Richard,

     I have learned a lot as well from this explanation of Ink Stones.

Tom,
 
    The inkstone is the vessel and the material used to grind the inkstick or inkblock on; it is NOT ink.
The inkstick or inkblock are the solidified dried ink. And there are collectors of inksticks and inkblocks as well.
If I did, and had a great collection (there are amazing Imperial examples), if they got soaked and dissolved, I'd be gutted.

To all,

   The idea of comparing the four types is brilliant. I always just called inkstone bottles 'Duan-stone'; now I know that is only one type of Inkstone material.

Best,
Joey

[Wattana]

On a side note, the last type of inkstone, the Dengni Yan is not exactly a stone but rather an inkstone make of clay and fired, just like the Yixing Zisha  pottery clay.

Dear Joey,

Thanks for the clarification. It was Richard's comment that Dengni Yan is made of baked clay which led to my confusion. 

Best,
Tom

[richy88]

Hi all

Thanks for all your participation.

Yes, most people will just refer to inkstone as Duan stone as it is the most widely used inkstone.

I will post a few inkstone in my collection in a separate thread for discussion.

Regards.


Richard

[YT]

Looking forward to this discussion Richard. Thanks

Cheers,
YT