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October 18, 2018, 07:13:13 pm
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Information about this ivory snuff bottle

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Author Topic: Information about this ivory snuff bottle  (Read 700 times)
albert
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« on: July 25, 2016, 02:56:40 pm »

Hello friend,

Some days ago I see this snuff bottle In Spanish web, I think that itís really beautiful, and Iím interested to buy it; but first I want to know your opinion, and other interest thinks that you can say about this item.

Thanks.

Albert.

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albert
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 02:57:36 pm »

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albert
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 02:58:56 pm »

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albert
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 02:59:26 pm »


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cshapiro
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 06:18:17 pm »

Hi Albert,

I am an absolute newbie and know nothing! That's my disclaimer! Haha
But I think this is a beautiful bottle!
The schreger lines are so pronounced!
What's on the back?
I will be interested to hear what the guys say - and I have a new ivory bottle from my BBB that I am about to post in another thread so take a look!

Cathy

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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 07:37:04 pm »

Beautiful bottle indeed.. Two dragons chasing a flaming pearl.. Looks nicely carved, and guessing fairly modern.. Maybe within the last 30/50 years ... Lets see what others think..

Thank you for sharing it, and good luck if you decide to go for it !
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 07:57:47 pm »

Dear Albert,
 
     I would date this bottle 1950 - 2000, but very crudely carved, and not worth purchasing. Even from this period, there are 'vintage' snuff bottles which are much more pleasing in their carving and finish.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

albert
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2016, 09:25:38 am »

Hello Joey,

Thankyou for your opinion;I'm agree with you when you say that it isn't an old snuff bottle; In other hand, when I show the ivory pepper, I'm completly agree whit you, that these item was bad carved, and maybe it was not a snuff bottle.  But, this item, I think that are beautifull carving.

Finally, can someone say where this type of snuff bottles are made? and what is the average price that it cost?

Thanks for all!
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Joey
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2016, 10:45:59 am »

Can anyone help me and post this bottle so Albert and other collectors can see the quality of serious bottles?
Thank you,
Joey

SALE 1977 ó
THE MERIEM COLLECTION IMPORTANT CHINESE SNUFF BOTTLES, PART II
19 March 2008, New York
Lot 234
Ivory snuff bottle
JAPAN, 1854-1920
$6,000 - $8,000
 $10,625  (sold)
 
 
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

albert
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 11:29:42 am »

Hello Joey,

I had seen the bottle that you say in cristies auctions and others, and the quality is much better, but the price is very high for me!! I sure that I never can buy it! Itís more expensive than my own car! Grin

Indeed, the bottle that I show is expensive for me; and I want to know what price you think that is good for it?

Thanks!
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 12:23:29 pm »

Dear Albert,

     If you can get it for 30-50 Euros, that is fair. But why buy it? Put the 50 Euros aside, save till you have a few hundred Euros, and get a better bottle.
Best,
Joey


Hello Joey,

I had seen the bottle that you say in cristies auctions and others, and the quality is much better, but the price is very high for me!! I sure that I never can buy it! Itís more expensive than my own car! Grin

Indeed, the bottle that I show is expensive for me; and I want to know what price you think that is good for it?

Thanks!

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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

AntPeople
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 07:32:24 pm »

Hi Joey :

Picture and description as in webpage of The Meriem Collection, lot 234.




Lot Description

**A RARE AND UNUSUAL CARVED IVORY SNUFF BOTTLE
JAPAN, 1854-1920
Of sectional construction, with wide mouth, convex lip and recessed flat foot surrounded by a footrim, the body carved and painted with a continuous scene of fishermen in a landscape, with two figures in a houseboat, with laundry hanging on a long pole, another fisherman in a boat nearby, pulling at his net while a seated male figure plays a flute, three fishermen standing in the shallow water close to shore, bringing in their catch in baskets, a fourth boat moored close to the island, where three figures are seated, drinking and in conversation, a fourth figure nearby holding a fish on a spike, all between a modified leiwen border encircling the base and formalized chrysanthemum petals encircling the shoulder, the details colored in red and green lacquer, matching stopper with chrysanthemum petals
2 49/64 in. (7.0 cm.) high


Provenance

Hugh M. Moss Collection.
Literature

Hong Kong Museum of Art, Snuff Bottles of the Ch'ing Dynasty, 1978, p. 93, no. 140.
Exhibited

Hong Kong Museum of Art, "Snuff Bottles of the Ch'ing Dynasty", 20 October-3 December 1978.
Canadian Craft Museum, Vancouver, 1992.


Pin
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 07:35:24 pm by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 09:38:38 pm »

Hi Albert,

The ivory bottle from the Meriem Collection is in a totally different league!

The bottle you posted appears to be from the mid-1960s to late 1970s, when a large number of ivory bottles were being produced by small Hong Kong workshops as souvenirs for tourists. Of this period most were indeed crudely carved as Joey says. I find yours to be much better than the average for this group. The carving is not badly done, and some care has been taken to smooth down the flat surfaces between the raised relief work.

The going rate for similar bottles at minor auctions is around USD100-200. I would not pay more.

Tom
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 09:43:18 pm »

Dear Pin,
  
     Thank you for your help.

Dear Albert, Cathy, et al,

     THIS is quality carving on an Ivory bottle. Or on any bottle. Wait till you find one of this quality in a junk shop, or at a booth at an antique fair. There are amazing antique fairs in Italy. I've gone with Giovanni a few times, and found wonderful things. He is very methodical, and finds a lot more (and he lives there, and goes all the time). But he studied first, and then bought, once he was sure he knew what he was doing. Are there such fairs in Catalunya?

    But I have never seen such good stuff at similar level fairs in USA, Canada, Ireland, UK or Israel. AMAZING! Of course, at the Olympia or Grosvenor House or BADA Antique Fairs in London, yes; but at serious prices. But in Italy, at streetside antiques fairs near Milan, near Parma, in La Spezia, etc., many wonderful things; and not expensive - usually  quite a bit under 100 Euros each (a Meiji (ca.1858-1910) Ivory page turner decorated in lacquer and inset semi-precious stones  (coral, jade, garnet, seed pearls) for 60-80 Euros; a Taisho (Japanese Art Deco, ca.1910-1935) carved Cinnabar Lacquer dish on porcelain for serving sweets at the Tea Ceremony, for 40 Euros; a genuine Tuareg incised silver and glass bead necklace, ca. 1920-1940,  around 100 Euros).

    Don't be in such a hurry to buy crap. Crap is always available. Wait and buy quality. And you never know when you will find it.
A friend was waiting for a flight from Manchester, UK, and went to a carboot sale nearby. And found a gold cigarette case from Tiffany's of NYC, with enamelling in mint condition, for UK£ 20 ! Have faith, and don't spend all your funds before you find the good stuff.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 09:47:55 pm »

Dear Tom,
 
    You are right - it is in a different league, but that is the league to aim for.
And it is amazing what one can find. One person buys a great piece, but then it gets into the hands of a person who doesn't value it; and then somehow gets to a person who will appreciate it, and often very cheaply.

Best,
Joey


Hi Albert,

The ivory bottle from the Meriem Collection is in a totally different league!

The bottle you posted appears to be from the mid-1960s to late 1970s, when a large number of ivory bottles were being produced by small Hong Kong workshops as souvenirs for tourists. Of this period most were indeed crudely carved as Joey says. I find yours to be much better than the average for this group. The carving is not badly done, and some care has been taken to smooth down the flat surfaces between the raised relief work.

The going rate for similar bottles at minor auctions is around USD100-200. I would not pay more.

Tom
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Wattana
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 09:53:00 pm »


    You are right - it is in a different league, but that is the league to aim for.
And it is amazing what one can find. One person buys a great piece, but then it gets into the hands of a person who doesn't value it; and then somehow gets to a person who will appreciate it, and often very cheaply.


Dear Joey,

You are right, of course. But one does need both patience and luck on one's side....especially luck !!!

Best,
Tom
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2016, 06:09:02 am »

And time .... And funds to travel .... So let me summarize :

Time , Patience, Luck, and yes, money talks and walks ... We can not and should not deny that ..

Or good eyes and the Internet as some of us here have built our collections with a good combination of the above !
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Pat
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albert
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 05:16:43 pm »

Hello,

thank you all for your help and your tips, at the moment I continuos reading the forum to learn more things about this marvelous bottles, and in the case that some bottles snuff seems interesting to me first I show the pictures.

Thanks!! Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2016, 08:57:43 pm »

Dear Pat & Tom,
 
     I have seen the treasures that Steven, George, Charll and the two of you have found online. Shoot, I've bought a bunch of them!  Grin
And that's great. But we have 'newbies' who are paying good money for bottles which are, frankly, not worth buying. I believe there are beauties out there waiting for those who know what they are doing. But if they've spent all their funds on mediocre examples and modern examples, they won't have the funds to grab the beauties when they surface. And I have faith they will surface.
Best,
Joey

     
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2016, 12:19:10 am »

Joey

My post was actually intended to supplement and build on yours. I agree with your points completely. I just wanted to reinforce it by the traveling and visiting part to see and hold other bottles as well as the funds required to buy decent collection items. My cabinets and drawers are still full of learning find items that I either had no time to dispose of yet or too afraid to show.  Haha ... I am being very serious ..
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Pat
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