Ma Shaoxuan on Ebay?

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Cathy,
 
    Thank you. I've already written a number of catalogues, but no book like Lilla Perry's. The gang on the Forum have been suggesting I collate all the posts I've written which have anecdotes, and I will have my book!

    Are you looking at CIPMA and the other books on line?
I will send you a personal email.
Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,

I think you already have some excellent material for your own book, just from the interesting threads I've read (example recently: Lorne Green)

This too, sounds like an excerpt from a very entertaining book of a snuff bottle collector! I read Lilla Perrys book in one day, and it was her little anecdotes about dealers and other collectors that made the book so interesting.

Now I am unsure of this book's authenticity! However, having a son about to depart to a very expensive college, I'm sure that I have four years before I will have the ability to buy anything like the likes of the artists in this book. So for now, I will have to satisfy myself with the "pictures" of the bottles.

I am not relying on his book alone. I have found some fantastic resources online that I am also reading:
Reflected Glory in a Bottle
http://www.e-yaji.com/books/rg/

Chinese Inside Painting of the Modern Age (this is my favorite reference book so far)
http://snuffbottlecollector.com/_books/cipma/cipma1.htm

Ming and Ch'ing Porcelain by Robert Lockhard Hobson on Google Books
https://books.google.com/books?id=o6EaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA128&lpg=PA128&dq=k%27ang+hsi+blue+and+white&source=bl&ots=yyBPiqH-x8&sig=YUXP4ANAUJpyD_YRxA--tOhUJOE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZq-Dh-9fNAhVK7IMKHYWZBpk4ChDoAQhGMAg#v=onepage&q=k'ang%20hsi%20blue%20and%20white&f=false

and then there are some excellent collections to be found online:
The Meriem Collection
http://www.e-yaji.com/past%20auctions/meriem/main/index.asp
http://www.e-yaji.com/past%20auctions/meriem2/main/index.asp

Interesting note here - a bottle very much like 634 was almost within grasp for me recently and I regret very much that I did not get it!

[cshapiro]

I thought I would revive this thread with another bottle. I would be most appreciative if you would give your opinion on it.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Congratulations - you've learned how to read Ma Shaoxuan's name in Chinese.
Pity it is a total fake.
Joey

[George]

Yes, and the broken down stopper is still worth more than the bottle..

Did you buy this one Cathy ?

[cshapiro]

Yes George I did - for a song really.
I was pretty certain that it wasn't by him. But I thought the bottle might have other good points. For one thing, I like the painting, and I can't find a bubble in it anywhere, and so am wondering how do you tell if a bottle is rock crystal when you can't get it wet and test specific gravity?

[rpfstoneman]

Cathy,

Looks to be a very late 20th century bottle where its owner displayed it near to much sunlight and the colors are faded.  Agree with Joey and George, not even a good fake!

Charll

P.S.- Given the bottle form I'm pretty sure it is glass. 

[cshapiro]

Ok thanks!

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Cathy,

If it is a forgery, WHAT other 'good points' could it have? Did it come perhaps in a gold box? 

If this is one of the close to 100 you bought before you joined the Forum, you are forgiven.

If however, you bought it after all my efforts to help you to NOT buy CRAP and waste your money; well, I guess that you are aiming to have the most impressive collection of crap snuff bottles anyone's ever seen, and good luck with that. And I understand that you are well on your way in that category.

For those novices who want to attempt to collect sensibly:
While checking every snuff bottle offered, go through the following steps.
1. First, look for ANY reason NOT to buy it.
2. Second, look AGAIN for ANY reason it is not what it seems.
3. Third, look YET AGAIN for any damage, which would make it worth much less, even if it was otherwise worth buying.
4. Don't convince yourself it MIGHT be good, or it MIGHT be quartz. Assume it isn't anything worth spending your money on, unless you are 110% sure.
5. Don't give ANY bottle the benefit of the doubt.
6. And that goes double for anyone selling bottles, unless you know them personally and can be assured that they are not selling you a piece of crap.

The good news, for those who aspire to a collection of crap snuff bottles:
There are lots out there, they are cheap, and, while the shops in Hong Kong who used to sell them by the weight in large baskets are gone, they are now found in large numbers on every continent but Antarctica!  So happy hunting!
Just PLEASE don't invite me to see the 'collection'; there are only so many times I can say about a piece of crap, "Now, THAT looks like a snuff bottle!"
 
   My late Uncle Sam Cooper was the Orthodox rabbi of Charleston W.VA. (for 49 years).
He once asked me, "Do you know what to say when a woman shows you the ugliest baby you've ever seen?" I said that I didn't. "Now, THAT'S a baby!" was his laughing reply.

 Best,
Joey 

Yes George I did - for a song really.
I was pretty certain that it wasn't by him. But I thought the bottle might have other good points. For one thing, I like the painting, and I can't find a bubble in it anywhere, and so am wondering how do you tell if a bottle is rock crystal when you can't get it wet and test specific gravity?

[cshapiro]

Dear Joey,

I think you are too hard on me. Never once did I think this bottle was by Ma Shaoxuan - that's why I posted it on this thread.

When I bought this bottle, I knew the signature was wrong, but I liked the painting and I thought it might have some age. It was inexpensive, so I bought it to bring home and study to see if it might be another artist imitating the master.

I posted it here for discussion, not for chastisement. At this point my love of the bottles is just a hair's breadth above dealing with the public humiliation.

[George]

Dear Joey,

I think you are too hard on me. Never once did I think this bottle was by Ma Shaoxuan - that's why I posted it on this thread.

When I bought this bottle, I knew the signature was wrong, but I liked the painting and I thought it might have some age. It was inexpensive, so I bought it to bring home and study to see if it might be another artist imitating the master.

I posted it here for discussion, not for chastisement. At this point my love of the bottles is just a hair's breadth above dealing with the public humiliation.

I don't want to speak for Joey, but I don't think he is intentionally trying to be hard on ya..  His straight forward way of expressing himself I don't take personally.. He does the same with me and others here from time to time.. 

Try not to take it personally, but at the same time, do take his points to heart..

I can only recommend that you share pics of bottles you are considering to purchase.. Myself and others here are more than happy to help before you spend hard earned money..

The one thing about this bottle that you can consider when looking at others is " I believe " the technique used to create this image results from applying the black outline ( photo enhanced, or applied decals ) of the main images in black, then simply blotting it in with colors.. Much like a coloring book.. You can see how someone sloppily blotted in the paint.. You can see how the blotted in colors extend outside the darkened outlines.. Real sloppy..

Just like this bottle that Pat shared and others like it..  The only difference between this bottle and yours is that the bottle Pat shares here has not been colored in. http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,25.msg1290.html#msg1290

Hang in there girl !   

[cshapiro]

Thanks George, I am just getting the impression that I am wasting people's time. I certainly don't want to do that, and so will take a little sabbatical.

[George]

Thanks George, I am just getting the impression that I am wasting people's time. I certainly don't want to do that, and so will take a little sabbatical.

Your not wasting our time at all Cathy...  Skip the sabbatical  ! 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Cathy,

     I'm sorry, but we've discussed via private communication a number of times, that you NOT just buy in order to buy.  And then you buy this piece which REALLY has no redeeming features, and which you agree you thought was wrong; and you buy the modern pod bottles, without checking first. Why just waste your money?

    We want to help you, and you can't say I've not tried very hard to; but then you go and do it all over again. And I'm upset, because I'm trying to help you, but you need to help yourself, too. And I feel like I've failed, because you've again bought examples which you will regret acquiring.

   I will take a sabbatical myself, and let others, who are more sensitive, help you.
I do hope you improve, and become a valuable member of the Forum.
Best,
Joey

     

Dear Joey,

I think you are too hard on me. Never once did I think this bottle was by Ma Shaoxuan - that's why I posted it on this thread.

When I bought this bottle, I knew the signature was wrong, but I liked the painting and I thought it might have some age. It was inexpensive, so I bought it to bring home and study to see if it might be another artist imitating the master.

I posted it here for discussion, not for chastisement. At this point my love of the bottles is just a hair's breadth above dealing with the public humiliation.

[samsonlzj]

For those novices who want to attempt to collect sensibly:
While checking every snuff bottle offered, go through the following steps.
1. First, look for ANY reason NOT to buy it.
2. Second, look AGAIN for ANY reason it is not what it seems.
3. Third, look YET AGAIN for any damage, which would make it worth much less, even if it was otherwise worth buying.
4. Don't convince yourself it MIGHT be good, or it MIGHT be quartz. Assume it isn't anything worth spending your money on, unless you are 110% sure.
5. Don't give ANY bottle the benefit of the doubt.
6. And that goes double for anyone selling bottles, unless you know them personally and can be assured that they are not selling you a piece of crap.

These are the golden rules really. As much as they would drastically reduce the quantity of collection, they would escalate the quality of it. We have to learn to be critical on these very art pieces we are paying to collect. Being too nice to them would sometimes mean being to harsh on our wallets. Joey is particularly right on "Never offer any benefit of doubt to them", with this alone we can live on pretty well as a collector without draining our personal finance. The whole thing would become more sustainable, too.

And I think patience is very important too. Everything takes time to develop. It's not easy to encounter a genuine nice bottle in an ocean of fake and inferior ones. After all, we are hunting for treasures! Remember the Great Wall didn't take one day to build.

[George]

For those novices who want to attempt to collect sensibly:
While checking every snuff bottle offered, go through the following steps.
1. First, look for ANY reason NOT to buy it.
2. Second, look AGAIN for ANY reason it is not what it seems.
3. Third, look YET AGAIN for any damage, which would make it worth much less, even if it was otherwise worth buying.
4. Don't convince yourself it MIGHT be good, or it MIGHT be quartz. Assume it isn't anything worth spending your money on, unless you are 110% sure.
5. Don't give ANY bottle the benefit of the doubt.
6. And that goes double for anyone selling bottles, unless you know them personally and can be assured that they are not selling you a piece of crap.

These are the golden rules really. As much as they would drastically reduce the quantity of collection, they would escalate the quality of it. We have to learn to be critical on these very art pieces we are paying to collect. Being to nice to them would sometimes mean being to harsh on our wallets. Joey is particularly right on "Never offer any benefit of doubt to them", with this alone we can live on pretty well as a collector without draining our personal finance. The whole thing would become more sustainable, too.

Well said .. !

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Samson & George,

Thank you both.
    My goal is to help mold new educated collectors who buy genuine snuff bottles which were used as snuff bottles, have artistic merit, and are fair value.

    If a collector wants to collect modern snuff bottle-like objects, that's fine too, so long as they know they are buying modern examples, and NOT over-paying.

    Or paying the price of a pristine object for one which is damaged and worth 70% or 80% less.
I have at least one friend on the Forum who willingly buys damaged bottles, but he pays prices commensurate with their condition. I admire him for giving 'a home' to these damaged bottles.
But damage bothers me. I wish it didn't. But it does.

   Best to all,
    Joey

[YT]

Dear all,

Sabbatical looks to be THE trend now besides Pokémon Go!

We have all bought rubbish bottles and from there I have learnt a lot. Much more than I can learn from anyone and any books. Meddling with them, comparing them, I strongly believe that I have more of these than anyone here.

The learning process is different for everyone. Just bear in mind one thing, the opinion we are giving are entirely ours which comes with experience. They can (although seldom) be wrong and it is up to you to accept. That is why we always emphasize that we are sharing our comments. Please do not use our good intended comments for commercial intentions.

Thank you.

Cheers,
YT

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear YT,

     I agree with you.
Best,
Joey