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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 06:04:46 pm
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Japanese? Kittens

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cshapiro
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« on: June 26, 2016, 11:30:39 pm »

Hi there!

I am a complete newbie, and was fortunate to acquire a small set of bottles from a former collector.

I don't want to bombard you with all of them, so thought I would start with my favorite and see if anyone might be able to tell me whether this one is Chinese or Japanese (my uneducated guess is Japanese), the possible date (I'm thinking this is more modern), and perhaps the artist.

Thanks so much in advance!


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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 02:58:45 am »

Cute cat paintings Cathy, and yes, this is Chinese snuff bottle.. As are all your bottles at the link you shared.

Fairly modern.. Maybe within the last 30 years or so.  I can not help with the script.

Thank you for sharing it !

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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 08:51:48 am »

Dear Cathy,

     Here is what I wrote in the INTROS section:

  " I've a question. Why did you assume the first one, with kittens and insects, was Japanese?
They are all Chinese. There is no-one doing this work in Japan, but there are thousands doing good quality tourist type bottles like those you illustrated, and dozens of artists doing the really high quality stuff, in China. "
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 10:44:44 am »

Thanks for the information George and Joey. It looks like I posted this in the wrong section, and so should post in the IP Artists of the Modern Period. Sorry didn't realize they were quite so new!
Joey, as to your question I can't really put into words why I thought it was Japanese - maybe the abstractness of it? Like I said I'm very new to collecting and very ignorant at this point, so it's great to know they are all Chinese!

I am disappointed that it's a tourist bottle - in that case I imagine the artist is unknown and it's not worth pursuing researching the bottle.

Thank you!
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2016, 12:38:15 pm »

Dear Cathy,

     Your second mistake!  Cheesy
    It is ALWAYS worth researching a bottle, because sometimes one learns more from mistakes. It is not badly painted, but when you see the really serious examples, you will see the difference.
  And I could be wrong. I'm not a fan of this type. Peter, who does like them, might say it is a good example.
But don't get discouraged. Just study and train your eye to recognise the best, and go for it.
Best Wishes,
Joey
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2016, 01:19:27 pm »

Very well said. Thanks Joey!
This forum is a wealth of information. I've ordered a couple of books - can't believe how expensive the books are. And I've already made mistake number three - I bought some bottles on ebay without knowing what I was doing. They arrived today and I see the error of my ways. I might post some of them if I can get over the embarrassment!
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 06:30:05 pm »


But don't get discouraged. Just study and train your eye to recognise the best, and go for it.


Totally agree! Golden rule for amateur collectors!
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 08:36:27 pm »


And I've already made mistake number three - I bought some bottles on ebay without knowing what I was doing. They arrived today and I see the error of my ways. I might post some of them if I can get over the embarrassment!


Cathy,

We've all been caught out at one time or another by eBay. No need to feel embarrassed. By posting them here, and allowing others to comment, you may gain some valuable lessons.   Wink

Tom
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 01:07:53 am »

Dear Tom,

     I've not been "caught out by ebay", because I don't buy on ebay.

BUT, I have been caught out by assuming something was genuine and 'Imperial', because it was labeled as such, before I knew what I was doing. But then, in the 1970s, I was making mistakes that cost US$20-30, and I was buying 19th C. as 18th C. (and in one notable case, traded a genuine early - mid 19th C. enamel on copper from Guangzhou ['Canton Enamel'], for a 1950s/1960s copy of 18th C. Beijing enamel!); and I was 13-16...

Dear Cathy,

    Mistakes #4 - Don't believe any adjective used by a seller to give a bottle more importance.

   BIG mistake #5 - Buy books and learn BEFORE you spend money on bottles! Otherwise almost EVERYTHING you buy will be modern and probably made after the reign of Emperor Mao Zedong the First!  Wink 

    Which is fine if you collect VMIPSBs, like Peter, assuming you can find them on ebay; but if you want to collect antique examples (and Steven or George  for example, have been quite successful in finding great examples on ebay; I don't - I need to handle the bottle to have any sort of feeling), you MUST have more personal knowledge.

    There is a Yiddish term, 'Rebbe-Gelt' ("gold for the rabbi"), which is used to refer to the 'dues' you pay when learning.  There are three basic ways you can do it:
1. You can 'pay' it by spending 'gelt' on books and learning first, and THEN buying based on knowledge.
2. You can buy from recognised, reliable dealers, like Clare Chu of the Asian Art Studio, in LA; or like YF Yang's shop, Antique House, in Honolulu; Robyn Turner or Michael Hughes in NYC are two more who come to mind. There used to be a great shop, Manheim's, in New Orleans (I dealt with them in 1980s; I DON'T know if Ida Manheim, the daughter of Abe, has the same expertise in Asian arts).
OR -
3. You can make a lot of mistakes, expensive or otherwise, trying to teach yourself.

My advice is to buy books & view serious antique collections in museums first,  and THEN start buying.

  Best Wishes,
Joey



And I've already made mistake number three - I bought some bottles on ebay without knowing what I was doing. They arrived today and I see the error of my ways. I might post some of them if I can get over the embarrassment!


Cathy,

We've all been caught out at one time or another by eBay. No need to feel embarrassed. By posting them here, and allowing others to comment, you may gain some valuable lessons.   Wink

Tom
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 10:18:21 am »

Hi Joey,

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately I have not paid too dearly for my mistakes yet. The first group of bottles (6 painted ones) cost me a little over $50 for all of them. That was a steal really for the enjoyment I've already had from them.
They also got me enthusiastic about collecting.

My ebay purchases were spur of the moment, and probably mostly mistakes - but if I enjoy them, the price I've paid so far is well worth it. My goal is to be able to recognize and buy true works of art.

I've read and am studying the bottles from the online books "Chinese Inside Painters of the Modern Age", and the other great online links and and I have ordered a couple of books I am waiting on: Inkplay in Microcosm  and Chinese Snuff Bottles: The Adventures & Studies of a Collector.

But it seems like it would take years of study to get to the point where I can make true educated purchases, and so in the meantime, I hope to draw from the expertise of collectors like you.


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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 01:42:23 pm »

Dear Cathy, I have been collecting for about 35 years, I buy what I like, be it old or new. By doing that I enjoy my collection, time, books and auction catalogs will teach you the finer points of snuff bottle collecting, as will this forum. Just enjoy your collection and don't take things too seriously. Jason.
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 01:56:06 pm »

Thanks Jason, I plan to enjoy the journey - and whether they are worth anything or not my little cats brighten my day!
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 10:44:18 pm »

Good advice Jason.
The important thing is to never regret a purchase afterwards (for whatever reason).
Tom
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 10:15:13 am »

Dear Cathy,

Best wishes to you on your journey of collecting snuff bottles. Incidentally, did you collect any other things before snuff bottles ?
I go along with Jason that you collect what appeals to you and wish to keep enjoying them, and not with any thought of economic returns ( this is incidental until you treat snuff bottle
collecting as investment ). If you want to spend some money on books on SB, buy those that include notes on the subject matters painted or motifs carved , etc. These kind of books help one to enjoy these miniature Chinese works of art.
Good luck !

Inn Bok
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 11:05:41 am »

Hi Inn Bok,

Yes, I am sorry to say that I am what others term a junk collector. I have been collecting with no rhyme or reason as to why I would get something, although most pieces have been Asian (art or carvings) or mid century art. 
I also am an artist and mainly paint portraits.
So I guess I am hoping snuff bottles could be my final destination because they can satisfy all of the things I'm looking for, and come in a small package!
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