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Help needed to identify this bottle / Edited.. ID Yong Shou T'ien


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Author Topic: Help needed to identify this bottle / Edited.. ID Yong Shou T'ien  (Read 8983 times)
Pat - 查尚杰
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Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰

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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 08:18:56 pm »


This is on my to do list.  Right now, a lot of this is 'either' in my head storage or in 'physical storage.  I am looking for a significant break in my consulting life (not necessary living the semi-retired life I had in mind while moving here!!).  I am actually very very interested in filling the gaps from the late 20s/30s to 1960 (re-emergence of quality painted bottles).  I think I have enough material in my collection that shows the evolution (includes continuous use of IPB snuff bottles as containers, stagnation, degration of quality, mass production, lower quality glass materials, invention of baking, oil based paints, different brushes etc..)

The late middle period and early modern period are the least documented and much harder to find out ANY information, in addition to the widespread practice of using the masters' signatures on the works produced in that time and the lack of proper dating.  (Zhou Leyuan, Ma Shou Xuan, Ding Erzhong, AND Zhang Wentang, Xue Jingwan) singatures are rampid on the bottles, but clearly are NOT of the quality of the masters.  On the other hand, though, we should not dismiss them as low-grade, as the skill was just re-emerging under Wang Zhen Tang and Xue Jingwan of the Shandong faction/school, and were obviously student bottles, but of historical significance nevertheless.   One of the indications of the Shandong style and the way to date them properly is that the students were using Zhang Wentang's name on the bottles, whereas in his 'top' period he would use his art name (Jing Xue), and rarely his given name.

I will produce pieces of info and snippets over time and document it here for later re-use.  I would love to identify another collector who has a lot of bottles of the 30-early 60s period so that we can compare notes and agree/disagree based on our collections and experience.  However, I am afraid that given the ICSBS type collectors preference for old bottles and the apparent lack of local collectors during that period left a gaping hole, which is proving very difficult to reconstruct.

In any case, I do have a wealth of bottles from this period, probably around 100 or so that I need to dig out, translate, catalog, take pictures etc.  I just lack time... and ready access to a Chinese speaker to read/translate all the info (and properly interpret, one needs to have a interest in Chinese history to get the true meaning/significance/context).  However, once that is done, the result should at least be able to provide a bridge from the middle period to the modern period.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 08:29:56 pm by Inside Painted Collector » Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Zha Shang Jie
Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2011, 06:32:14 am »

Hi  Pat,

This stuff is pure  gold......

You MUST  write  it  up in full

Meanwhile   I am  cut n  sticking   all  your   Forum postings


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