General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, evaluating, identifying, researching, appraisals, and much more.

We are also currently working extra hard towards supporting, and giving well deserved recognition to all new and upcoming student artists of "Very Modern" inside painted bottles.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Adrain shared this beautiful Ye Zhongsan smokey rock crystal bottle

Photobucket

Photobucket

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector

The International Chinese Snuff Bottle Society


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
August 22, 2017, 04:12:12 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Downloads Gallery Staff List Login Register  

Help needed to identify this bottle / Edited.. ID Yong Shou T'ien

Poll
Question: http://saviucwpsuvs.com/
TeCIdrlOIMi
NKjWqEREYu
ZcahXAKaMH
epPpkvKzmYnc
jwvESbWHEZBdhmg

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Help needed to identify this bottle / Edited.. ID Yong Shou T'ien  (Read 8906 times)
Max
Guest
« on: July 14, 2011, 05:33:53 am »

Hello, my name is Max and I am starting off in collecting Japanese antiques but I do pick up a few Chinese items
when buying.
I have a glass painted snuff bottle and I am interested in the artist and age, can anyone help me to identify this bottle?It is quite large as well and has ground base and rim with ivory spoon and washer.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 10:48:20 pm by Bottle Guy » Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 05:42:26 am »

Max

This is Yong Shoutian style but I cant read the signature well. He was active from about 1910-mid 20s, and the fighting scenes were his favorite style and trademark so to speak.  80pct plus of bottles I have ever seen with his name on it are of this type and subject, and at the time not so many artists favored this subject.  He also seems to have favored large style bottles.  This is my best educated guess.  One of our members here (Bill Patrick) at www.snuffbottlecollector.com has several of his style bottles, while I have 2 or 3 only.  George, our moderator, also likes this style and artist.

Take care!
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 8281



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 08:07:53 am »

Hi Max and welcome to the forum .. !

Just to share with you.. Here are a couple of links to the only couple of Yong Shou T'ien  bottles that I have so far.

Warrior bottle one
Warrior bottle two

Here is a direct link for the artist within Bill Site.

When I first came upon these, thought they were a bit rare. Not so sure now.. Over the past few months I have actually seen a fair number of these bottles show up for auction.  Some signed and some unsigned.

Bill mentions in his site how this simplified character style on your bottle, as well as mine, did not become widely used until after the establishment of the People's Republic of China in 1949. Since Yong Shou T'ian stopped painting in 1926 it brings into question if these bottles were even painted by Yong Shou T'ian and not other artists who signed his name.

Nice bottle Max !

   
Report Spam   Logged

Max
Guest
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 04:29:16 pm »

thank you, that was a great help..the second link shows the signature which is on my bottle. I am really pleased to have it identified. I feel a bit lowly as you are all so knowledgable here and you have some amazing bottles. I am only recently getting into buying Chinese and Japanese items of interest, from antique Kimonos to tiny porcelain vases.
What a huge and fascinating world!
I bought a 1780 bronze water dropper today and am dleighted with it.I would be glad to show you but its not a snuff bottle so it might not be of interest.
I have a snuff bottle that I bought in an auction " box of bits" tried to research its composition and it appears to be either horn or rhino horn, I dont know how to tell the difference, it is fairly fibrous and the light shows through the thinner parts. Its not amber I know that much as I dabble in dealing in jewellery.
Would I show it to you here or on another part? its not a painted bottle.Sorry, I have run away here...I only meant to thank you all for your help but I do talk too much!
Report Spam   Logged
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 8281



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 05:05:02 pm »

Max,

You can share that horn type bottle within the "All Other Snuff Bottles and Containers" part of the forum. Would love to see it !

Also.. Being a collecter of Chinese anitiques, would like to ask if you have some expertise with porcelain items..

It is one area we are lacking some expertise here within the forum. I am always watching porcelain type snuff bottles that are up for auction, but I just do not have the knowledt to tell a true antique from a modern reproduction. Because of that, I have yet to bid or purchase even one bottle yet.

I have read quite a bit off of Gotheborg's site. Lot's of good info, but still not confident enough to purchase porcelain yet.  

Could use some help/expertise from time to time.. !  Wink

Look forward to seeing your horn container. I posted one horn container in that area of the forum.. They are an art form all their own...  Smiley
Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 08:14:32 pm »

Hi  Max

Good news and  bad news  :   

The  artist name  is indeed  Yong Shou Tian.

But the  " Shou" is   in  simplified   form  , which  was not  invented  until  after 1950
Maybe  Pat  can  give a  second opinion

Cheers   Peter

Report Spam   Logged

Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 08:31:39 pm »

Hi  Max

I  take back my last    comment  !   Sorry   !!

I  just examined the  first   Yong  Shou Tian  bottle  on Bill's  site, which   is  taken  from   CIPMA (  Wang Xisan  editor)  and so certianly  genuine.  The  "shou" character  is  written just like   the    "shou" on your  bottle  in   simplified  / abbreviated    form

Maybe some  simplified  characters  used  after  1950   were  based  on  commonly accepted abbreviations   from the  past, so  I was  wrong to state  categorically that  ALL simplified  characters   were  only invented  after  1950

As to whether the   handwriting  is the  same,  you  can   judge for  yourself.  Follow the  link below to  Bill's  site  (   you can also  navigate to Bill's  site   from the  sidebar on this  forum)  and then  enlarge the  pic  ( which  is  in fact a  scan I made  from CIPMA  which  I  sent to  Bill) .  But then  also  scroll  on  to the  right, and  see a lot more  Yong Shou Tian  bottles  from various sources of Bill ,  and  you  will  even  see a  pic  which assembles   several   "signatures"  of  Yong Shou Tian,   and  Bill  says  he wonders  if    they  are  all    by THE  Yong Shou Tian , or whether  some  are  later  copies  ( but then,  why  would a  later   copy artist  copy  the  styel  but  be so silly as  to  use  the   wrong    character  style   ? That  makes  no sense)

I  don't collect  Middle  period bottles  so I cannot comment on whether the  style  is  correct  for this  artist.

Cheers   Peter
Report Spam   Logged

richy88
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2258



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 11:49:30 pm »

Hi Max & All

Although the PRC government have simplified the Chinese characters in 1950 to improve literacy of the masses, such simplified Chinese characters do exist for a long time. It is quite common in Chinese calligraphy to write certain characters in various styles.

Therefore, the character in the signature is acceptable as Shou (寿) is a very frequent used character in Chinese paintings and calligraphies just like the other character Fu (福). If you look at one of my bottle painted by Lu Jian Guang, there is a side written with the Shou Character in a hundred variations.

http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,131.0.html

However, please be aware that with the simplification of the Chinese characters exercise by the Chinese government, there are also new simplified characters being created during that time.

For your reference.


Richard


Report Spam   Logged

Richard from sunny Singapore
Evaluate Educate Entertain
Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2011, 05:27:42 am »

The Warring Period fighting style is Young Shou Tian for sure, no doubt in my mind about that, and sure one of the various Yong's listed on Bill's site haha...will the real Yong Shou Tian please stand up?  lol

I guess I am lucky to have one of his non-fighting style bottles, similar to the one listed in CIPMA.  I guess he was a two track minded kind of guy painting 'fighting' scenes or 'dreams of the red chamber'  Grin  hm..   Roll Eyes sounds like a regular guy to me... haha
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 05:29:43 am by Inside Painted Collector » Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2011, 05:47:51 am »

Hi All

Although  I don't collect  anything   pre-1960  (  or  , rather,  more  like   pre-1990)   I am  guessing that there could  be a lot  of  interest   soon in the late  Middle  period   which is  , I assume,  sort  of   1910  - 1930*

*any  input here  from others  more in the know?

Bottles  painted  in this  late  Middle period  do not  seem to be in the  main focus   of the  ICSBS core members,  who     prefer to  collect the  classics  from the   " Main - Middle Period"  i.e.   late  1800's,  so prices  are  still  low  (  US$ 3- 4 K range  with  provenance? )   There  are obviously a finite  number  of  genuine  bottles  in existence  from this  period    therefore  any  such bottle  will  eventually appreciate .  So this could  be a  good area  to   collect, and to  build  up   expertise  on what is genuine and  what is not

( Just  my   10 cents  worth)

Cheers  Peter 
Report Spam   Logged

Max
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 08:22:16 am »

I totally agree with you Peter, it is a market that is unwanted right now but there has to be a time when it comes into its own.
When I had an antique shop in the 70's we disparaged most of the Victorian pieces..not old enough...and as for Edwardian!! the furniture was merely firewood..so things do change.
Report Spam   Logged
Max
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 08:58:28 am »

and George, buying Chinese porcelain on line is hazardous to say the least. With porcelain you have to handle it, get the feel of it and the texture, taste it, smell it ...it is so hard to define but I can tell a fake from genuine if its in my hand.It is purely by an instinct. SO going by photographs is fraught with difficulties, I dont believe 90% of listings either in auction houses or on ebay.
My best buys have been when the person or the auction room genuinely do not know what they have.
I saw a  listing for a "old wood bird whistle"..my heart raced...I got it for 4! it was a Peruvian occarina from about 900, so its a good idea to keep hunting.
Report Spam   Logged
Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 11:14:44 am »

I have quite a few bottles from the mid teens to the late thirties, and yes they were once easier to obtain, although that has changed significantly already and prices going up.  I am always told (and seems to hold true), that after the Japanese invasion of China in 1937, IPB production dropped to a trickle and did not really get back into gear until mid-50s.  I only have a couple of bottles dated between 1937 and 1955, say.  The Shandong faction got things going again about that time (Zhang Wentang and early students),but good glass was scarce and expensive in early post-revolution days, so many examples of bottles are in cheaper lower quality grade glass.  This period is characterized by glass that is less transparent, and more opaque, so they would give the bottle a brown/sepia hue to make the painting stand out more.  Another characteristic of the 50s/60s is that a lot of those bottles were signed with known painter names but were not necessarily copies of existing works.  Not sure why exactly they did that, but it was clear they were NOT ZLY, MSX, Ding Erzhong, Bi Rongjiu type material or subjects..
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2011, 11:49:37 am »

Hi  Pat

Wow  !  That's  real  pure  gold  history. Never  heard that before  in such detail. Where  did you  get that from?

Zhang  Wen Tang  is   off  my  DB radar  screen  completely.  No record  whatsoever   ( unless  it's an alternativ  english spelling  :  check  your  copy  of   my    DB in case there's a  match somewhere)

Is that  because  he belongs to the  late  Middle  School ?

 I would be interested to    research this  period  in the  longer term , but  only out  of  academic  interest  , not to collect seriously

BTW:  there's a  comment  by Max  below  about the  need  to  FEEL   an  artefact . This  echoes  something  Ian Hardy once  wrote to  me   about  Zhou Leyuan bottles  :  he    said   he needs to  FEEL them  to know  if they are  real  or  not  (something  about the   quality / density  of the glass)

I reckon  I'm pretty much  au fair  with anything painted  post  2000, but   even so   I could  be fooled  by a  poor  quality  photo *  . And  anyway, anything painted  post  2000 can be  checked with the  artist  , so ... SO  WHAT  ?

*  One  modern  artist  I greatly  admire  is  Sun  Honglin who  suddenly  developed a  completely new  style  about  2  years  ago  which I am collecting  voraciously , as also  are   a    few other  top Chinese  collectors .  In     4.2010  I  visited  Sun Hong Lin's   home and  saw    a new series  in partly-painted   form, and agreed to   buy  3  of them   " as then  seen"  .  Cost was    US$2K  / bottle   "friendship  price"    approx   .     Sun Honglin's  parting words  were  " my style  is  unique - no-one can    copy it ".   And  I believed  him,  never  having ever   EVER  seen a  bottle  painted  like  his .  Imagine    therfore my  shock  when   10 minutes  later  I walked  in to  Wang Xisan's  Hengshui  Museun  shop  further  down the   street  and  there  in the   student  artist    section  was   a bottle  that  I would  have  sworn was painted  by Sun Honglin  if  the  signature  has  been  his . It  was  in fact painted  by a  student  artist  of  Wang Xisan  , copying  Sun Honglin, and I bought  for  only US$40  just to teach myself a  lesson  

Cheers  Peter

PS :  This Forum  is  really  turning up   some  amazing  interactions and  info.  We  may not  always   agree and  from  time to time  maybe  we  must  agree to   differ, but  MAN  !    do  we  learn  a lot   more  by  open interaction  !  





Report Spam   Logged

Max
Guest
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2011, 12:49:17 pm »

It is very hard to put into mere words how I can feel if an item is fake or not...I deal in antique toys and dolls and can tell instantly if I am holding a fake.I suppose if you know your subject then knowledge is your friend.
Report Spam   Logged
Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 04:19:37 pm »

Hi  Max

Indeed  YES !

It  is often   said,  somewhat  disparangly, that only  Hugh Moss   has enough  knowledge  to be  able  to  validate   snuff  bottles  of  the    1700 /1800  period  with  authority. Thus  bottles   that have passed  through  his  hands  at   any time  in the  past and  have  been  thus  validated  are  considered  le  creme  de  la  creme and  will  never  lose  their  value .

At the  recent  Bloch   Collection   auctions ( which  Bloch  Collection  was , I have  heard  said, was  originally  built  up largely  on the  personal  advice  of  Hugh Moss  to  George  Bloch)  it  was noticeable that  many bottles  were  being bought  back by Hugh Moss  himself, either  for  his  own   re-sale  at some time  in the   future  or  on behalf  of  other  collectors.

This  is  the  essence  of the   whole  "prime  collectable"  market .  If  one  can corner  the  very  apex  of  any  collectable
market  ( snuff bottles,  art,  vintage  cars,  whatever)  one is  in a  very powerful  position.

There's a website  I  subscribe to   www.artdaily.org   :  truly   amazing  website   with  a  daily     free  newsletter  ( spam -free)  containing   amazing  info  on everything   from  the  latest news  on  deep  outer space,  to   fossils , to  model  steam engines ( which is  how  I  discovered the  world of  " Gauge  One" model  live steam engines, which  I also  now   also collect  to a very  small degree) .  But the  main thrust of the  daily  newsletter  is  auction  results  and other  news  in  the  art  world . And  frankly  I am  totally  amazed  at the  prices  fetched   in the   art world  by  what I consider  as  total  RUBBISH  -  I  would  not  hang  such  pictures  in my home  even  if  you  paid  me  US$1, 10, 100  Million .  But  that's  the  way  it  goes  in the   art  world .  A   pre-WW2  artist , now  extant, is  hyped   and  suddenly  a  picture that  he  sold  for  US$20  in 1930  to keep  his  family  alive   is  worth  US$20 Million   in 2011.

What does  this  have to  say about  late  Middle  and  Modern  School Inside Painted  Bottles ( IPBs)  ?   Well -  in principle  - exactly  the  same.

The  "hyping" has  already  taken place  in the  Early and  "Middle -Middle"  IPBs,  although  I must  say that  I am  suprised  at  how  low  prices   even   fully-provenanced  prime   Middle-Middle  School  artists'  bottles  (eg  Zhou  Leyuan)   fetched  in the  Bloch  auctions  so  far . US$10K  could  buy  one a  prime provenanced  ZLY.    But  it's  only a matter  of  time before  that becomes  US$100K,   same  as   the   much-prized   Ma  Shaoxuan  portrait  bottles  which are much  more  rare, thus  much more  "collectable" and which do auction  now  for  US$100 K

I think the   whole   world  of  IPBs  is  one   particular  art  form  which  has  yet to  be  appreciated  world-wide , but  when  it   finally  IS   appreciated  it  will  explode, because  this  is  an art  form  which  one  can display   and  enjoy - every  single  piece - in one's  home !  Whereas  one  can only  hang  a   very   few    canvas  paintings in one's  now  (increasingly small)  home.

Let's  put  this  in context  home-wise.  I own a  70  sq  meter  apartment  in the  middle  of  central  Hong Kong , a stone's  throw  (=10 minutes  walking distance)  from  every  key business  building  in  the   prime  HK  Central  district.   I bought  it  years  ago  at the  bottom  of  a  super bottom market  crash  in 2003  (  dot com   crash  +  SARS  epidemic)  for a  song and a  dance , but now  it's  worth  over  US$1  Million.   That  money   would  buy me a  small  mansion  in the  USA  or  Europe, but  even  so   if this is my  permanent  home  there's a limit  as to  how  much  canvas   art I can display  in such a  USA  or  European  mansion  :   10...  20...   max  30  paintings .   I only  have  room in this  70  sq  m  apartment   to hang   just   2   canvas  paintings out  of the   dozen or  so  BEAUTIFUL   Chinese  landscape  paintings  I  bought  in the  1980's  when  I  first  started  to    work  in China ,  each  purchased  at  less than  US$ 1K , but each  worth now  well over  US$10K  ( I  did not  bother  to , nor   did  I have  the  knowledge to,buy  PRIME  collectable  paintings   30  years  ago:  otherwise  I  would  now  own  a  dozen  paintings  each  worth  US$ 100 K )

But  I can  easily   display my  modest collection  of  200+ IPBs, and  there's  room for  many more before  I  finally  run out  of  shelf  space.

The  one  thing  in this  little  planet  called  "our   world"   that is  finite  is  SPACE , thus  collectable art will  invevitably  progress  towards  miniatures.  At some  time in the   future,   long - very long-  after  I am  dead  and  gone,  there  will come  a  tipping  point  ( read the  book  of the  same  name!)  when   suddenly  the  main focus  of most collections  will  move to  miniatures . At  that time  IPBs   will  suddenly  explode  in   value,  just  as  postage  stamps  ( another  miniature)

What  am I saying  ?  

I am saying that  IPBs  is  an   art  form waiting to  be  discovered

But am I  hyping  to my  own  benefit  ?  Certainly  not   so   because  it  will  never  happen  in my  lifetime  ( I am  62, going  on  63)  and  probably  not  either  in the  next  generation.  But  by about  2050  it  will  happen,  and   it  will  happen  big-time.

In the  meantime  :  I am  content  to  enjoy looking  at ALL  my bottles  every  day as  I  work  at home, and   to know that  I  am helping to  keep   the  " Van  Gogh"s    and  " Monet"s   of today  in a  reasonable  standard  of living and  happiness  as long  as  I and they  live.  

Thus  my  single  objective  is  to promote   the  Modern IPB  shool  world-wide and try to  make  sure   the  artists  at least  get a  decent   wage  for   their   work

Somehow  - certainly  not  through  my  doing , nor  even due  to the  painstaking  work  of  Bill  Patrick  over  20 long years -but  most  probably  due to the  sudden  rising   "Nouveau riche"   class  in   China   -  which  will   soon  ecplise  the  West for  sales  of  super-cars  (  Lamborghinis  etc)  as per   today's news  in HK  -   Mopern IPBs  will  burst  onto the   WW  art  scene

Let's hope for  that   Day.  But  I will  never  live to see  it

Cheers  Peter
  

 






Report Spam   Logged

Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 08:33:03 pm »

There are 2 answers here to the thread:

I read a lot and try to do a lot of research

1) about the late middle school, I am comfortable to say that this ended in 1937.  Many experts would agree with this.  Zhan Wentang (Jing Xue) and Xue Jingwan (Fu Chen), the latter being the son of Xue Xiangdu (an old master) were asked in 1956 to revive inside painted bottle production by the Boshan Colored Glaze Cooperation factory.  Jing Xue (Zhang Wentang) is also the one credited with inventing baked color, allowing a more lasting and more colorful picture inside the bottle (and water-resistant).  In addition, Xue Jingwan appears to have been the first to use a brush similar to painting on porcelain, another breakthrough in inside bottle painting...

In 1966 their apprentices Li Kechang, Sun Jijie, and Xue Xixiang trained Wang Xisan and Liu Shouben on how to use this type of brush in the Beijing faction, after which Wang Xisan went to Hebei and Liu Shouben remained in Beijing.  These were from then on the 3 factions, ...

This is all in Wang Xisan's CIPMA pages 44-46, so even acknowledged by Wang Xisan himself.

2) Yes, the need and effect of holding and examining a bottle personally can not and should not be underestimated, if not only for the obvious reasons, but also for the effect it has on us when we examine it
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 10:44:41 am by Inside Painted Collector » Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
Pat - 查尚杰
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 3394


Zha Shang Jie 查尚杰


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 09:02:09 pm »

One other thing about the late middle school.  In another discussion here, I challenged the long and commonly held belief that inside painted bottles were not used to hold and use snuff but for decoration.  20-30 of the bottles in my collection that are dated somewhere between 20s and late 30s have either traces of snuff marks and some have snuff still inside (no mistaking the scent of snuff folks), or in the worst case, traces of having been cleaned (!! ouch ouch, dont ever do that or try to, I have some that are sad reminders of this), or traces and scratch marks from the spoon on the inside.   It is therefore an assertion on my part that the 'masses' had access to cheaper, lower grade bottles painted by yet unknown students/painters, and the 'value' of the painting was just a gimmick or maybe the use of snuff in IPBs was more widespread than we believe it to be.

On the other hand, I will also share one of the 'tricks' used by sellers/dealers to 'age' and 'retrofit' older bottles to makes us believe they are old:

1) to mimmick the traces of 'snuff' they use fine brown sugar and slighty dampen the bottle so that it cakes on a bit.  If later they turn over the bottle, the non-caked on powder falls out and voila.... So.. also check the scent.  If you know snuff , you will know... And by the way, I am guessing some use real snuff if they have access to it.  Although in China today that is less of a problem as it has virtually dissappeared.  As an example, I try to find old (full) snuff containers one sold for commercial use, and it is rarer than hen's teeth.

2) they will slightly wash out the bottle, creating an 'older' effect as the paint fades somewhat almost immediately. This works less and less with newer painted bottles as the paint is oil-based, and as Peter indicated, the period from 1990 on is quite well documented, and painters ar mostly still alive for us to check on.
Report Spam   Logged

Best Regards

Pat
查尚杰
Zha Shang Jie
Peter Bentley 彭达理
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2498



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2011, 10:40:36 pm »

Hi Pat

More pure   gold  info  re  late  Middle  School

Man !  This  Forum   sure  is  FUN  !!!!

( And if  I sometimes write some  silly  stuff  please - all of  you  - forgive  me   : I never  really  grew  up....  )

I have  started  a  word.doc  in my  Middle  School  file    called  " the  sayings  of  Pat"  ( well, not  quite such a  distinguished  sobriquet , but   everything you  have  written I have  cut n  stuck    and  attributed  to  you)

Re  the  REAL  SNUFF  thing...   on the  day after the opening  of the  WXS Museum  in BJ   we  all  took a  coach  to  Shijiazhuang  to  see the  WXS  Museum there  which  was in fact  opened   last  year.  Even bigger than  the Museum  in BJ,  but less  prime  bottles.  Helluva   journey  -   4  hours   each  way -  but  I made  good use  of the  time  talking to   the  Singapore  guys  , especially Yeo Kong Hoo   who   has a collection  of  every  WXS   bottle  for every  year  WXS  ever painted ( His  book  in  WXS,  Liu Shouben and  Dong Xue  is  reviewed  in the latest  ICSBS  journal  and  I now  have  2  copies, one  bought  from Richard  and  another  given to me   and signed  by Yeo  in BJ  :  I did  not  realize  until  I got  back home  that they  were  the  same  book  -  so  one copy  spare    FOC   for  first  dibs  :   but on second  thoughts  I think it  should  go to Bill   Patrick .   Richard  can  easily  arrange  local  sales in Asia   and  indeed  WW because   he    has a side  interest  in   books on  snuff bottles , which is   great )

BILL  :  if  you are  reading this  :    Yeo's book will   soon  find its  way to you  via  a  USA  colleague  visiting  China

......  oh  yes  .... the   Snuff thing ........   when we  left  the  Shijiazhuang  Museum  we  each  got  a    gift  pack , which  included a  small   round   tin of  WXS  SNUFF    !    No Joking !  I have  yet to open the  tin  ( the  lid  is  somehow  stuck  down)  but as a  school  kid   I did   - as  fad  -    try   snuff  ( loved the  menthol   flavored    version) .  Zero  "kick"  " just a  huge  sneeze   after  sniffing

Cheers   Peter
Report Spam   Logged

snuffbottlecollector
Full Member
***
Posts: 156


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 05:08:07 am »

Thanks Peter.I look forward to the book!

Pat - thanks for the wealth of information. Would you consider writing this history and illustrate it with pictures of some of the bottles from your collection  for www.snuffbottlecollector.com? While I have plenty of material to post there that I haven't had time to do yet (thanks to Peter, some of my own and hopefully from Richard), I think this is valuable reading.

Bill
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal