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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
June 25, 2017, 05:33:39 am
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Smoky quartz with etched rabbits and bird

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Author Topic: Smoky quartz with etched rabbits and bird  (Read 113 times)
marcos
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« on: May 04, 2016, 01:56:11 pm »

Hi,

Sharing a smoky quartz snuff bottle with a nice coral stopper and filigree.

Does anyone know whether this decoration is related to any specific artist or school?







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George
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 03:35:41 pm »

I do not understand the artists motivation behind bottle like this. Your is not the first perfectly fine and beautiful quartz or glass bottle that is etched crudely to only distract from the actual bottle.  It appears your is combined inside painting with the etching..  Have seen this before, but as best I know there is no specific school or group that did this. Have even seen inside painting combined with overlay used to create the entire theme.

Would have been nice if they would have left the bottle alone rather than what was accomplished here. 
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Joey
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2016, 05:11:30 pm »

Dear Marcos,
 
       I can't comment on the artist, but believe the decoration was ca. Mao Zedong the First, or possibly Deng Xiaoping.  Grin
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Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

marcos
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 09:38:00 am »

Dear George,

Now that you mentioned it, I agree 100% it should be left alone. The etching only detracts from the beauty of the bottle itself.

Dear Joey,

I agree with you, Mao Zedong period looks right for the decoration  Smiley

Kindest Regards,

Marcos

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Joey
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 10:38:57 am »

Dear Marcos,
 
      The original bottle may well have been made ca. 1830-1880. But when people had plain bottles which were not highly valued (and in 1976 I bought a plain 'tea-crystal' flask shaped snuff bottle like this, from YF Yang LTD of Hong Kong, for US$54), anything that could give 'added value' might be tried.

      I once bought (also in 1976, by coincidence!), a cut stone ossuary (or 'bone box') used for secondary burial by Jews in the land of Israel 2000 years ago (then under various names: Judea, Perea, Samaria, Galilee, Gaulanitis), for US$1! It would have been worth US$30 in its original plain state. But the Arab who sold it to me had carved 'Jewish symbols' on it to raise its value. But he copied the symbols on a few Israeli coins, and they were much later in period. Anyone looking who knew anything, knew they were fake later additions.  I was buying some other stuff from him, a few lamps (US$5 each) and a genuine decorated stone ossuary, with a pair of six-petaled rosettes on the front (for all of US$100!) , and he offered me the piece.

     I said to him in Arabic, "Why did you wreck it by adding the modern symbols?" "Wallaahi", he swore, "it came like this out of the ground!"   I replied "First, it was in a cave, not in the ground. Second, take a lira coin, and a 50 agorot coin out of your pocket. That is where you copied the designs from! The menorah is wrong - it was the Roman one! The Star of David was NOT a Jewish symbol then - it was the 6 petaled flower, like on the genuine one I am buying from you. I'll give you US$1 for it, so I can plant flowers in it. If you'd left it alone, I would have paid US$25-30 for it. Or take it away. "

     He asked if all the Jews knew it was fake. I said only those who would be interested in buying it, would know. The ones who weren't, wouldn't care. He later brought  me a lot of good stuff for my antiquity collections. The gentleman dealt out of the boot of his car, since he lived in Dura, near Hebron (Dura was 'Adorayim' in Biblical times, when it was a Jewish village. ).

    People who are ignorant, can unknowingly do a lot of damage.
Ask me. I know. Angry   Roll Eyes
      In 1981, my best friend gave me a magnificent cedar chest, mid-Ottoman period (ca. 1600-1700) for my birthday. He'd bought it from a cousin, who'd inherited it from her mother, one of his father's sisters. It had been bought new, and in the family since then! It was painted a pale green, in a shade I didn't like. Without thinking to check if the colour was a recent change or original to the piece, I asked my friend if he could sand it down to the natural wood and oil it, as he'd done to his own chest, which had come down in his mother's family. He agreed, and it came out beautifully.

     I was thrilled from 1981 to 2010,  when a friend who is an expert on Ottoman furniture and decorative arts, was visiting me in Ireland, and saw it. He exclaimed, "What moron damaged this superb mint condition chest by sanding off the original lime green staining?!"  It has the original lock and key, the original internal decoration, the original hinges and handles, and from the cut decoration, where the paint has survived, it had the original paintwork!"

    I said, "I'm the guilty party, along with my best friend, who'd already done it to his own chest." My friend was polite and tried to make light of his first statement, but I found out that my chest, now worth about US$5,000-6,000 in Istanbul, would have been worth US$40,000-50,000, if we'd left it alone. Oh well, it wasn't going to be sold anyway, but I wish I'd kept it authentic.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

marcos
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 10:54:46 am »

Hi Joey,

Here is another thing I learnt from you today. I knew the Star of David became widespread only in Medieval times, but never heard about the six petaled flower as an earlier symbol. Is that flower the lillies that grow in the Galil (שושן)?
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 02:43:03 pm »

Dear Marcos,

     We find the star of David already in 2nd Temple Period, but it is found at that time also among the Samaritans and later it was also a Moslem symbol. Originally it was David's name's first and last letters (2 Deltas, overlapping; the delta was the ancient Hebrew script's 'daled').
 
     The six petaled rosette looks like a star of David  made of six oval petals.
The French 'fleur de lis' design is actually copied from the 'Lily of Sharon', first found on the hemi-obol coin from the Persian province of Judah (the coin even has 'YHD' in ancient Hebrew script on it), from ca.450 BCE, and then found on the Hasmonaean coins of the Maccabees, ca. 170-58 BCE. 
How did you add the Hebrew script (shoshan)?
Best,
Joey


Hi Joey,

Here is another thing I learnt from you today. I knew the Star of David became widespread only in Medieval times, but never heard about the six petaled flower as an earlier symbol. Is that flower the lillies that grow in the Galil (שושן)?
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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