Click On Globe To View Forum Visitors From Around The World

General information about the Site

This snuff bottle community forum is dedicated to the novice, more experienced, and expert collectors. Topics are intended to cover all aspects and types of bottle collecting. To include trials, tribulations, identifying, researching, and much more.

Photobucket

Among other things, donations help keep the forum free from Google type advertisements, and also make it possible to purchases additional photo hosting MB space.

Forum Bottle in the Spotlight

Samson shared this beautiful Ye Zhongsan landscape bottle

Gotheborg's Marks On Chinese Porcelain

Photobucket

Snuff Bottle Collector


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 21, 2018, 02:31:46 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home Help Search Contact Login Register  

Overlay To Share

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Overlay To Share  (Read 670 times)
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« on: May 01, 2016, 08:35:06 pm »

Still scratching my head that I just won this and why it ended so very cheap via eBay..

Looks to me like a nice 19th.


* overlay1.jpg (55.09 KB, 454x767 - viewed 30 times.)

* overlay.jpg (44.98 KB, 389x711 - viewed 11 times.)

* overlay2.jpg (76.39 KB, 960x580 - viewed 28 times.)

* overlay3.jpg (84.15 KB, 716x621 - viewed 29 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Social Buttons

YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016, 09:31:19 pm »

Dear George,

Looks to be a very good buy. Congrats!

Cheers,
YT
Report Spam   Logged
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016, 11:46:29 pm »

Thank you YT... I am not completely convinced that the black overlay is glass. I can see some swirling within it like it should be glass, yet I think it is enamel, and look forward to holding in hand.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 12:38:34 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

YT
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 12:46:07 am »

Dear George,

I have a similar bottle that has a completely opposite effect as yours.

Cheers,
YT


* GC576.jpg (126.11 KB, 582x486 - viewed 27 times.)
Report Spam   Logged
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 02:12:02 am »

How interesting !  Never seen one as yours before.. 

At first I thought mine may be unfinished piece, but then thought perhaps it is finished just as was intended by the shop. I don't think the snowflake as a background to the black would be attractive.

Yours is beautiful and thank you for sharing it YT !

Report Spam   Logged

Fiveroosters
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 2951



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 03:52:49 am »

Both very nice bottles. Dear George, not enamel, definitely glass overlay.
Giovanni
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8955


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 06:07:29 am »

Dear George,

      I don't know whether yours was meant to be carved or not, but I used to own a black glass on camphor glass single overlay, carved with the Nine Ding (The nine bronze vessels or Cauldrons which were meant to convey legitimacy on a ruler in China).

     It wasn't the most appealing of my Overlay bottles, but quite nice for all that.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

pookles
Full Member
***
Posts: 194


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 04:00:43 am »

Hi folks,

I have a similar bottle to George and YTs posted in this thread. Wonder if I could get some feedback? My bottle does not have such a deep foot rim, which makes me believe it may not have age I thought it might have. What are others opinions on the age of this bottle please?

It has a snowstorm ground with a red overlay and as you can see from the photos it appears that there was a problem during the overlay process as that is definitely not a chip. Lastly, when I shine a light inside the bottle it is really quite beautiful and is suffused with 1000s of tiny bubbles...

Thanks for any help  Smiley


 


* r1.jpg (102.63 KB, 519x900 - viewed 27 times.)

* r2.jpg (124.13 KB, 800x847 - viewed 30 times.)

* r3.jpg (112.49 KB, 800x837 - viewed 16 times.)

* r4.jpg (91.5 KB, 800x626 - viewed 15 times.)
Report Spam   Logged

Luke
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8955


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 09:02:54 am »

Dear Luke,

      Please sign your messages, because I don't always remember that 'pookles' is 'Luke'. Or,
I can start writing, "Dear Pookles, ..."   Roll Eyes Grin

      Good News / Bad News time.
Good News:
This looks like a very fine red overlay over 'camphor' or 'snowflake' glass, 19th C. (ca. 1800-1880).
I believe it was meant to be carved into a Yangzhou Seal School bottle (hence what I see as a very thin red overlay layer).

Bad News:
There is what looks like a chip out of the raised red glass footrim, which was then polished out. Which drops its value drastically. Serious Condition Issues.

    Assuming you want to restore it to feel whole, I'd have the damage to the footrim repaired with Japanese gold lacquer. Then it will feel 'right' in the hand. I know of no-one who can repair it to look pristine.
Best,
Joey
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

AntPeople
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 864



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 09:08:12 am »

Too bad the damage at the foot rim is too much.... or else I think it's a nice bottle...

Pin
Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

pookles
Full Member
***
Posts: 194


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 09:48:30 am »

Dear Joey,

As ever thanks very much for the information. My snuff bottle collection has a growing amount of old bottles with some damage. Mainly because I pick them up cheap from flea markets or from online.  This was one of those bottles. Yes a real shame about the damage. Do you think it will regain some of its value from restoration? I would definitely be interested if you know someone who could help me out here? And doh 'snowflake' not 'snowstorm.' 😊

I will endeavour to sign my posts going forth! The pookles name is just my weird penchant for silly nicknames on forums. I have a few others. One bonus of a silly nickname depending on your viewpoint is people tend not to take you too seriously Smiley 

Dear Pin,

Yes the damage is a shame. It stills stands perfectly upright and of course looks great from one side, but yeah quite a bit of damage there Sad

Best
Luke
Report Spam   Logged

Luke
OIB
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 1139


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 10:44:16 am »

George,

Congratulations !

Before I see the footrim, I thought your bottle
is a finely lacquered one 😄😄 it is a beauty to behold.

Inn Bok
Report Spam   Logged
Rube
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Posts: 651


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2017, 04:45:29 pm »

These overlays are really neat, thanks for sharing them all!

Cheers,


Rheuben.
Report Spam   Logged

Rube, 4th Generation Collector

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2017, 05:05:02 pm »

It is always nice when able to bring an old topic back again..

Nothing more to add, except wanted to say that it is a nice addition for your collection..

Some have no problem buying damaged bottles. When the damage is not "in your face" or effects greatly the inside painting, or like this bottle, the foot rim, then some can be nice collectables .

Report Spam   Logged

pookles
Full Member
***
Posts: 194


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2017, 06:51:32 pm »

Hey George,

yeah it looks good with the other bottles on the shelf. It's nice to have Joey and others agree it's a nice old bottle apart from the damage. I would, of course, love some pristine examples, but I didn't pay anything for this, so overall a nice bonus Smiley Also, yeah it's nice to see examples of similar bottles all in one thread like this... YT's example is really unusual!
Report Spam   Logged

Luke
Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8955


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2017, 07:00:26 pm »

Dear George,

      I meant to ask you the difference between black overlay glass and black overlay enamel.
Isn't enamel just ground glass?
How do you differentiate?
Or, more accurately, why do you differentiate?
Best,
Joey

Dear Luke,
  
     I have a bottle, a shadow agate with a really great design of a white-throated duck paddling across the bottle from left to right, on one side. The only carving is a series of lines, designed to look like the small ripples in the water as the duck paddles. The reason behind the lines is the little bit of brown material in the beige background, below the duck. The 'ripples' make it seem that the brown is the duck's feet, but they are diffused by the refraction of the water!  

    It had a big chunk out of the footrim, on the reverse. When held, it felt 'wrong'. I had it repaired with Japanese gold lacquer, and now, it feels 'right' in the hand. I also think the added 'bling' is really nice.  Grin Roll Eyes

   The idea of adding gold lacquer and thereby 'flaunting' its damage, but also returning the feeling in the hand of 'rightness', is very East Asian. As opposed to the Western style of trying to make a piece look pristine. And I guess, now West Asian, since I've adopted it in Israel (we are located in West Asia, on the West Coast of Asia, in fact.).
 
   I will ask my friend Susan Gavins Page, if she can give me the name of a lacquerer in the UK.
Best,
Joey

  
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2017, 12:50:33 am »

Dear George,

      I meant to ask you the difference between black overlay glass and black overlay enamel.
Isn't enamel just ground glass?
How do you differentiate?
Or, more accurately, why do you differentiate?
Best,
Joey


I differentiate the same as when we talked about this for a jet bottle..

I can not answer if enamel overlay is ground up glass like that of cloisonné pieces as an example.

Why I would go to the trouble to differentiate, or label them differently ?  Just to correctly describe a piece.
Report Spam   Logged

pookles
Full Member
***
Posts: 194


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2017, 08:25:17 am »

Dear Joey,

Much appreciated for any help you could give to restore this bottle. I like the idea of not necessarily hiding the damage and restoring it in the Eastern way. I just realised there is someone here I could ask too as they mentioned they know someone who is very good at restoration. I'll check that source out too.

Best
Luke
Report Spam   Logged

Luke
George
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 10490



View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2017, 06:52:12 pm »

Dear Joey,

Much appreciated for any help you could give to restore this bottle. I like the idea of not necessarily hiding the damage and restoring it in the Eastern way.

I also like very much when the restoration shows..

Have a read through this topic for repairing.. I have yet to try this..
http://snuffbottle.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,1565.msg26585.html#msg26585
Report Spam   Logged

Joey
Private Boards
Hero Member
***
Gender: Male
Posts: 8955


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 02:49:11 am »

Dear George,

      I see no difference between a thick layer of ground black glass in a flux ('enamel') and molten black glass, either applied to a 'base bottle' of glass.

    So I don't understand how you are being accurate in your description.
I'm sorry for my obtuseness, but :
"Vitreous enamel [is] a smooth, durable coating made of melted and fused glass powder" (Wikipedia).

Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey


Dear George,

      I meant to ask you the difference between black overlay glass and black overlay enamel.
Isn't enamel just ground glass?
How do you differentiate?
Or, more accurately, why do you differentiate?
Best,
Joey


I differentiate the same as when we talked about this for a jet bottle..

I can not answer if enamel overlay is ground up glass like that of cloisonné pieces as an example.

Why I would go to the trouble to differentiate, or label them differently ?  Just to correctly describe a piece.
Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal