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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
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Is this bottle any good?

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Author Topic: Is this bottle any good?  (Read 771 times)
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ileney
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« on: May 01, 2016, 03:58:05 am »

This is really just an exercise in trying to understand what makes a bottle of good quality or not. I realize people are busy and I am a newbie, so feel free to ignore this question. This is not a bottle I own. It is on sale on ebay- and I don't plan to buy it. It simply looks good to me (and I am sure it is not because it is under $200 USD and on ebay). I am wondering if there is anyone with some extra time who doesn't mind educating me and could explain what I should be able to learn by looking at this that I am not picking up on. (Obviously, I can see it is not signed.)
I look at the IP bottles that people post here and I confess that they ALL look good to me, with the exception of those with an obvious black or dark border at the bottom, when I understand a photofilm process was incorporated in the making, or those with obvious defects. It seems miraculous to me that anyone could ever paint an entire scene or portrait inside a bottle with a brush that must be the size of an eyelash, and apparently make few errors while doing it, so perhaps that at least partially explains my inability to distinguish mediocrity from great artistry. Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer.



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« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 04:22:04 am by ileney » Report Spam   Logged

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YT
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016, 04:08:01 am »

Dear Ileney,

So where is the link to this bottle?

I don't think anyone can tell you whether a bottle is 100% real unless it comes with solid provenance that links it right to the first painter.
We can give our views and it is entirely up to you to accept what sounds right.

Cheers,
YT
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ileney
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016, 04:14:24 am »

I'm sorry. I was trying to put the picture in the post so that people would not have to follow links and ran into a snafu with my photo engine and it initially linked to the wrong picture. The correct picture is in there now. The person selling it says nothing about history, but I am just trying to understand what is a sign of a good painting vs. tourist-level painting of these bottles as I fear I cannot tell even that. Many thanks for anything you can tell me. As for accepting or not, it is not a bottle I own or intend to own, and YOU are the experts so I would of course appreciate and accept anything you tell me. Probably, you could tell me it is made of fossilized cheese that came from the moon and I would gullibly believe you!
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2016, 05:18:12 am »

Dear Ilene,

     This bottle seems VERY well painted to me. There are all sorts of reasons why a good bottle has not been signed.
1. It was painted during the Cultural Revolution (Doesn't apply here - this is obviously ca. 1990 to 2016.
2. The artist meant to sign it, and then sold it before he had a chance.
3. The artist sold it to another artist, who was going to sign his own name, but who sold it on before he could.

What is the actual height of the bottle?  I am assuming about 2.5 - 3.0 inches high (or 62mm - 75mm).

    If you were going to buy a first bottle, this is not a bad one, in my opinion.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

ileney
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2016, 06:06:52 am »

Joey,

Thank you so much for your opinion. It means so much to me that someone of your expertise is willing to share his knowledge with a complete newbie like me. Do you mind if I ask what identifying marks you looked for that tell you it is such a recently made bottle?

I am greatly relieved to hear that it IS well painted. I feel like a complete idiot when I try to distinguish which are and are not well painted, let alone which are old or new and was starting to feel I could not tell at all. Of course, as I said, you could tell me it was wonderfully made or terribly and I would believe you either way!

The bottle description says it is 7 cm. This is the link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-snuff-bottle-inside-painted-a-procession-of-figures-through-woodland-/282012596347?hash=item41a942b87b:g:JVsAAOSwKfVXGKmt

I love the theme on this one and would bid on it, but my husband and I just bought a condo in the Boston area and I have already exceeded my budget for the month of what I intended to spend on decor before we even finished getting the inspection reports, and it needs a new furnace and a/c. By complete coincidence (we picked it for location/cost/setting), the condo we are buying is decorated in the most ghastly Asian confusion fusion you can imagine. The owners were evidently widely travelled and any time they entered an Asian or African nation, they bought something- anything- and then hung it on the wall or windows, or worse, grouted or glued it into place. (They also painted the walls red.) There are Samurai swordsmen leaping all over the kitchen backsplash (somewhere, a Japanese person is screaming in horror, I fear, though I admit they made me laugh when I saw them), and Chinese symbols all over the windows, which I fear may say "a fool and his money are soon parted," or perhaps something a good deal worse. Or they may just be good luck symbols. I did not look too carefully, to be honest and will have to revisit what to cull and what to keep when we move in. Fortunately, much of it is removable and will go with them.

Maybe you or someone else here will like this bottle and buy it if it really is well painted.

Thank you again for your insights.

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2016, 06:33:19 am »

Dear Ilene,
 
     Once you see the painting enlarged, if it still looks good, it should be good.
Trust your eyes and taste.
Remember, it was painted through the 10 mm opening of the mouth, and it is 70mm X 35 mm max in area.

    Re. your new home, good luck with cleaning it up! Usually, people with no taste get it wrong most of the time,
but there might be a treasure among all the tat. 

     I had cousins like that in Haifa. Wherever they went, they bought 'ART'. But their taste was dreadful! After both of them had passed away
(in their 80s+; not bad innings for two Holocaust survivors who met as teens in a DP Camp, after surviving 1939-1945 in Poland), their sons asked me to go through their stuff. I was able to find a nice piece for each of the three.Now we are not talking Klimpts here, but nice pictures.

     Most of the stuff, Asian or Western, was Goodwill Store quality.... but the couple had opened a very serious metal factory in Israel in the 1950s, so these guys were not depending on the 'art collection' for their inheritance, Thank G-D.

     Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rpfstoneman
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2016, 12:04:11 pm »


Ilene,

This bottle looks like or is similar to the works produce by Li Kechang in the mid 1960's.  To me it is either a Li Kechang bottle or is in Li Kechang style.  The glass body is also the same as a bottle that I have from that period, unsigned, and presumably from this artist.  Though I would have to have Steven or one of the other more experienced IPB collectors in the group to verify my hunch.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Steven
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2016, 12:12:27 pm »

Dear Charll and all,

Yes, one of my friend in UK bought the bottle, and she sent me the pic before the auction. And I agreed that bottle is a very attractive Li Kechang bottle. The painting show a great distance of the woods, and the donkeys are lovely painted. Love the bottle, I might ask my friend see if she want to part of it.Smiley

Steven
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ileney
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2016, 12:45:38 pm »

I feel much better reading all these comments! I had really started to feel I could not at all distinguish good from absolute trash but maybe I am finally starting to at least have some idea of what to look for. I probably should have bid on it since I liked it so well but have already been so extravagant this month on other things related to our condo and my lapidary hobby that my husband would have a heart attack! Thank you all for your willingness to educate others.
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2016, 02:33:47 pm »

I saw this on sale on ebay and was tempted to bid, but I didn't because of the mud spots, see the first picture. I was afraid that the paint could be affected.
Giovanni
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ileney
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2016, 03:54:16 pm »

I didn't realize that was mud and thought it part of the painting.
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George
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2016, 03:58:46 pm »

I do see bottles like this from time to time, and as Steven already noted, most likely Li Kechang..  For what ever reason, his bottles always seem to be plagued with mold spots..  Maybe it is the luck of the draw for the ones I notice this, but has kept me from bidding on any..
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