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Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
October 17, 2018, 08:41:43 am
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Porcelain bottle with Yong Zheng seal

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Author Topic: Porcelain bottle with Yong Zheng seal  (Read 191 times)
marcos
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« on: April 11, 2016, 12:00:19 pm »

Dear All,

Could you please share your thoughts on this porcelain bottle? Do you think it is a modern copy or genuinely 18th century?

Thanks a lot,

Marcos







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Joey
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 02:32:36 pm »

Dear Marcos,

      It is DEFINITELY NOT Yongzheng. It IS a very well painted mid-late 19th C. (or possibly later) example of an iron red overglaze enamelled porcelain snuff bottle. Because iron red is painted over the enamel, and is a relatively thin wash, it is easier to do delicate painting.  Nice example.

Best,
Joey
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:03:48 pm by Joey » Report Spam   Logged

Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

marcos
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 02:40:48 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thank you so much for your help!

Regards,

Marcos
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Joey
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2016, 03:08:09 pm »

Dear Marcos,

       I realised I'd not explained WHY it was later in the 19th C.
Look at the dragons' scales: They are done by 'cross-hatching' and then a red 'wash' over.
The earlier 19th C. examples have the same cross-hatching and wash, but as well one finds that a dot was added to each
diamond-shaped space in the cross-hatching. In the 18th C., each scale is literally painted on individually.
Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

rpfstoneman
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2016, 03:14:39 pm »

Marcos,

A very nice dragon bottle and I would have dated it the same as Joey; likely the last quarter of the 19th century and could go into the 1st quarter of the 20th.  An interesting dragon design in the your looking up at the throat and bottom jaw of the dragon emerging from the waves.  This is somewhat of an atypical perspective and to date I've only seen one to two bottles showing a dragon at this angle.  

Thanks for sharing this one.  Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

George
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 03:02:53 pm »

Another wonderful bottle Marcos...  Like all your bottles ! 

Thank you for showing it !
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Joey
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2016, 04:32:10 pm »

Dear Charll,

     #14 and #17 in "Dragon" both seem to have that aspect.
Best,
Joey



Marcos,

A very nice dragon bottle and I would have dated it the same as Joey; likely the last quarter of the 19th century and could go into the 1st quarter of the 20th.  An interesting dragon design in the your looking up at the throat and bottom jaw of the dragon emerging from the waves.  This is somewhat of an atypical perspective and to date I've only seen one to two bottles showing a dragon at this angle.  

Thanks for sharing this one.  Charll
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

marcos
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 05:19:06 pm »

Dear Joey,

Thanks again. I would never think of checking the dots inside the scales.

(What is "dragon" #14 and #17?)

Hello Charll and George,

I am happy you liked it.

Best Regards,

Marcos
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George
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2016, 06:24:51 pm »



(What is "dragon" #14 and #17?)



Those are two of Joey's bottles in his collection which is published as Worlds In A Bottle .. http://www.bookgallery.co.il/content/hebrew/bookpageschema.asp?BookPageID=100685

If someone else does not beat me to it, I can post those two bottles for you a bit later.. 
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Joey
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2016, 06:32:59 pm »

Dear Marcos,

     The late Robert Kleiner published a catalogue of 110 of my B & W snuffbottles in 2007, to coincide with a Museum exhibition in the Gardiner Ceramics Museum Sept.-Nov.2007. The catalogue is titled, "In Search Of A Dragon", and I shorten it to "Dragon", since everyone on the Forum seems to have a copy.  # 3 shows an 18th C. bottle where the dragon's scales are painted to imitate a 3 dimensional effect. After this was the cross-hatched and dotted style of depicting dragons' scales (and carps'), ca. 1820-1860; and then cross-hatching and a wash of underglaze cobalt blue or copper red (or overglaze iron red as in your example), ca.1860-1920.
Sorry for the confusion,
Best,
Joey


Dear Joey,

Thanks again. I would never think of checking the dots inside the scales.

(What is "dragon" #14 and #17?)

Hello Charll and George,

I am happy you liked it.

Best Regards,

Marcos
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2016, 06:39:24 pm »

A very important Blue and White reference!

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marcos
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2016, 07:06:52 pm »

Dear George and Joey,

Thanks a lot for the reference. I will get the catalogue through Amazon.

Best Regards,

Marcos
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George
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 12:13:05 am »

Dear George and Joey,

Thanks a lot for the reference. I will get the catalogue through Amazon.

Best Regards,

Marcos

Your welcome even though I stupidly mixed the two books up...  Been a rough few days  Undecided

By the way Marcos... Having an issue with a camera and my computer... As soon as I figure it out, will get those pics for you..
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 12:29:42 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 07:41:59 am »

Dear George,

    You were not exactly on your top game, and it is understandable. When you are feeling better, it will all seem like a short bad dream.
I'm sending a copy to Brazil...
Best,
Joey


Dear George and Joey,

Thanks a lot for the reference. I will get the catalogue through Amazon.

Best Regards,

Marcos

Your welcome even though I stupidly mixed the two books up...  Been a rough few days  Undecided

By the way Marcos... Having an issue with a camera and my computer... As soon as I figure it out, will get those pics for you..
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Joey Silver, collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

marcos
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 02:54:38 pm »

Dear George,

Thanks a lot. Joey has kindly mailed me a copy of the catalogue.

Kindest Regards,

Marcos
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