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Butterflies Porcelain Bottle

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Author Topic: Butterflies Porcelain Bottle  (Read 404 times)
Tito
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« on: April 05, 2016, 06:23:54 pm »

Hello everyone,
I am a collector of a lot of things:  WWI and WWII military firearms and edge weapons, Antique Japanese netsuke, antique silver crucifixes, antique canes, diver watches, and I am beginning to appreciate snuff bottles.  I have a good number of them already, but, I really don't know what I have.  A have a few books on the subjects, I browse through the related websites every so often, but the learning curve is still very stiff.  So, I have a lot of questions about a good number of these bottles, but, I am going to start with a tiny porcelain bottle that is filled with butterflies. 
Someone mentioned that it is probably an early 20th century piece, but, I would like to know who its maker and artist was.  Has anyone seen something similar?  Can anyone read the script that appears near the neck of the bottle?  The bottle measures 2.15 inches (5.5cm) tall, 1.50 inches (3.8cm) wide, and 0.70 inches (1.8cm) thick.
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Tito 


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Steven
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 08:08:19 pm »

Hi Tito,

Welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for sharing a nice looking bottle. The inscription can be read"the pic of hundred butterflies, painted by yun ming in 1992."its a well made late 20th c bottle..
Steven
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Tito
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 11:29:08 pm »

Thanks, Steven, that was pretty quick and accurate.

The next bottle is also small and a little different than others I have.  It appears to be made of ceramic.  It looks old to me, but, it could have been made to look old.  I wonder what the character on one of its panels represents.  It measures 2.15 inches (5.5cm) tall, 1.54 inches (3.9cm) wide, and 0.48 inches (1.2cm) thick.


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Steven
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 11:51:52 pm »

Dear Tito,

How do you think its ceramic bottle? It looks like a wood bottle to me, altho I agree with u its could be new.

Steven
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George
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 12:45:20 am »

Outstanding bottle !

Thanks for sharing this one Tito  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 09:47:09 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

Fiveroosters
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 06:10:47 am »

It is made of some organic material, probably, but surely not wood to me. Look at the chips. Dear Tito, is it light or heavy compared to the porcelain bottle?
the character on the second panel is the double happiness, while the first one I don't know. Surely Steven can help on that.
Dear Tito, did you try to scratch it?
Kind regards
Giovanni
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Wattana
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 08:04:45 am »

Hi Tito,

Welcome to the forum!

Your butterfly bottle is beautifully painted. It is certainly one of the better modern porcelain bottles I have seen, with great attention to the individual detail on the various types of butterfly.
For the second bottle, my first question is the same as Giovanni's - is it light or heavy? That will instantly tell you whether it is organic or not. Ceramic looks doubtful, judging from the pictures.

Tom
 
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Tom
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Tito
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 08:46:50 am »

When I first saw the bottle, I also thought that it was made from wood, but , when I touched it, it felt a little cold, and I thought that it was a little be heavier than wood.  The bottle weighs 1.4 ounces.  A slightly larger wooden bottle that I have weighs just one ounce.   I thought that it was ceramic, because when I scraped the inside of the mouth with a carving tool, a whitish very fine powder came out.  So, I thought that it was purposely made to look like wood, and, from some of your comments, the bottle maker/artist did a good job at that.
The wooden bottle that I used for comparison is shown here.

Tito


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Tito
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 08:49:57 am »

Forgot to mention.  The wooden bottle measures 6.2cm.
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Tito
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 08:54:56 am »

Wattana, I also thought that the bottle was excellently done.  It must have taken a a highly skilled person to do this work. Some of the butterflies are just a few mm in size, and they have been drawn with a series of precise single strokes in a very symmetrical manner. 

Tito
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« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 10:56:37 am »

Dear Tito,
the ceramic bottles are, in almost all case, porcelain. Then it is very difficult to scrape. If you did use a stainless steel pin or knife or razor, it will not scrape. many materials release a whit epowder when scraped, including resins/plastics.
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Giovanni
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Tito
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 12:30:43 pm »

Hello Giovanni,

Thanks for the comment.  I used a dentist type carving tool that I use for restoring/repairing antique netsuke.  The material is not resin/plastic.  I am familiar with this material as I have several rare netsuke made from antique Japanese plastic.  The material that I scraped from inside the bottle has a chalk/sand(y) consistency very similar to what you get when you scrape raw (not hardened or porcelain) ceramic.

Tito
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Tom B.
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 01:32:31 pm »

Hi Tito,

Welcome to the forum. Just a suggestion for the future you should probably start a new thread for each of your bottles or at least wait for a discussion of one to end before posting another one.   Smiley

I agree with Steven and Tom about the excellent quality of your butterfly porcelain SB.  Initially I didn't think it could be so modern. Steven are sure it couldn't be from 1932?
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Tom B.

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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 01:39:38 pm »

I think that the second SB you posted is a hardstone possibly Soapstone or Steatite.  In the image below you can see that the character was carved out of the surface 


* Hardstone Snuff xxcmH forum 1.jpg (153.01 KB, 712x744 - viewed 9 times.)
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Tom B.

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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 01:42:18 pm »

In this next macro you can see that the interior was coated with something possibly a think coat of lacquer to make it more waterproof for storing snuff or a medicine?


* Hardstone Snuff xxcmH forum 2.jpg (113.61 KB, 772x640 - viewed 14 times.)
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Tom B.

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« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 01:44:41 pm »

By the way the red arrow shows a chipped area that is the same dark color as the outer surface, so the white is only a thin coating of the inner surface of your snuff bottle.
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Tom B.

Tito
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 02:10:37 pm »

Hello Tom,

Thanks for mentioning the thread protocol.

I think that what you said about the bottle being made of hardstone or soapstone makes a lot of sense.  The idea of there being a surface coating on the bottle also sounds reasonable.

How old do you think the bottle is?

Tito

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« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 03:38:32 pm »

Dear Steven,
I am with Tom here about the dating. That style of the butterflies I ahve already seen on porcelain of the first half of 20th century. If the bottle is 1992, then the painter did copy very well the style.
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Giovanni
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Tito
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« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 03:46:44 pm »

All,

I am clear about the dating of the butterflies bottle.  Thanks.  Any idea about when the soapstone? black bottle may have been made?

Tito
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Tom B.
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« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 03:59:19 pm »

Dear Giovanni,

Glad that you agree about the style fitting the 1930's, there were so many porcelain artists signing their works during the Republic of China era.  I think only a small percentage of them produced enough signed work to be well known today.

Dear Tito,

I think that other members who are more experienced with hardstone snuff bottles can help you with a probable date.  George is our resident lapidary.  Joey, Giovanni, Steven, Tom, YT, and others are much better qualified in that area.

By the way since we have two members with first name of 'Tom', I have chosen to be called 'Tom B.'

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Best regards,

Tom B.

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