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Engraved Peking Glass Bottle - From Stanford University Museum Collection

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Author Topic: Engraved Peking Glass Bottle - From Stanford University Museum Collection  (Read 386 times)
AntPeople
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 04:35:30 am »

In my opion.... The bottle is very nice...

But the painting and especially the calligraphy is not at all great... It could be added by someone in the later year...

Pin
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 08:50:13 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2016, 05:48:33 am »

The seal on the calligraphy side is 陆, a Chinese surname

The painting side is a name 子刚。

If you check 陆子刚 on the web.. It will tell you that he is a very famous Jade carver in the later years of Ming Dynasty.


Also, although not very clearly written (Bec its a bit chao shu) .... I think the calligraphy written on the bottle change one word of the phrase...

仙露明珠讵能方"其"朗润。 to
仙露明珠讵能方"我"朗润。

Changing "him" to "me"......

Maybe the carver is very proud of his own character or very frustrated about something.. Don't know. But usually, most Chinese don't do that too often to phrases said by a respected historical person.... (Like the most respected emperor in Tang Dynasty) Grin

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2016, 10:38:04 am »

Very interesting !

http://www.chinaculture.org/classics/2007-10/18/content_120949_3.htm
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2016, 11:42:05 am »

And is he the one who invented the dremel?  Grin
Joey


“松风水月未足比其清华,仙露明珠讵能方其朗润。”

唐·李世民《大唐三藏圣教序》

This is a phrase used by Li ShiMing (Tang Dynasty Emperor) to praise the upright character and high moral values of the famous monk Tang San Cang (the monk that is featured in the Monkey God story). The verse is captured in the book of "The teaching of Tang San Cang"



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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2016, 11:46:56 am »

Dear Pin,
 
     Did you mean 'caoshu'?   I thought the mixture  looked more like 'xingkaishu', which has some characters clearly 'kaishu', and some which are 'xingshu' which resembles 'caoshu'.
Best,
Joey



The seal on the calligraphy side is 陆, a Chinese surname

The painting side is a name 子刚。

If you check 陆子刚 on the web.. It will tell you that he is a very famous Jade carver in the later years of Ming Dynasty.


Also, although not very clearly written (Bec its a bit chao shu) .... I think the calligraphy written on the bottle change one word of the phrase...

仙露明珠讵能方"其"朗润。 to
仙露明珠讵能方"我"朗润。

Changing "him" to "me"......

Maybe the carver is very proud of his own character or very frustrated about something.. Don't know. But usually, most Chinese don't do that too often to phrases said by a respected historical person.... (Like the most respected emperor in Tang Dynasty) Grin

Pin
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2016, 10:25:09 pm »

Hi Joey

You are correct ... It's a mixture of style...

A few words are quite 草.

The original verse by Li ShiMing has 2 “其” 。
First one appear in the first sentence :

松风水月未足比"其"清华..... Which the carving shows clearly.... (First word on the 2nd column on the bottle)

The 2nd "其” appear in the 2nd sentence :

仙露明珠讵能方"其"朗润.... Which the carving carved out in 草书 way and looks like 我(me) rather than 其 (meaning "his")..... (Last word on the 3rd column)

Also, one of the reason I think the carving is done by an apprentice is by the number of words in each column... The first column had 7 words, the 2nd column had only 5 words, the 3rd had 6. Usually, a well plan calligraphy work has equal number of words per column except the last column (unless it's a totally 草书 and free style way of writing).....Which the artist will usually include his or her name, the year to make it complete or balance.

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2016, 11:08:15 pm »

Thanks for the additional info Pin and George! Much appreciated. I still think it is authentic. Lu Zigang could not have made this as he lived in the Ming Dynasty but it is likely this was a tribute of sort to his skills as a master. The real author will never be known..

This caught my attention in George's link:

--------------------------------
Perhaps the most renowned jade carving artist of all times, Lu Zigang lived in Suzhou during the Jiajing and Wanli Periods of the Ming Dynasty. Not only known for his exquisite skills, Lu was also the first jade carver who dared to inscribe his name on all his works. When making jade ware for the royal family, such behavior was considered as trespassing on the emperor’s supreme power.
Yet Lu could always find a hidden corner for his name on the jade ware, despite the emperor’s warnings. He concealed his name skillfully inside the spout of teapot, or on a horse’s ear, which usually took several decades to be found. His wit and jade carving skills won him the right to sign his name, and the respect of generations of jade carvers. Craftsmen in the Qing Dynasty often inscribed Zigang on their works as a tribute to the jade carving master.
----------------------------------------------------------

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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2016, 11:31:38 pm »

Yes.... It is also said that from Lu's time in Ming dynasty to end of the Qing period.... There were at least 20-30 very famous Jade carvers... But none of them dare to imitate what Lu did... Bec the panelty of being found out carving one's name on a Jade pieces for an important client can be severe ....

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2016, 12:19:21 am »

Yes, that caught my eye as well ...

I am with ya Pat.. Authentic, tribute bottle makes good sense, and really hope we can add the use of iron brush !
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« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2016, 01:07:34 am »

There are actually several Lu Zigang signed snuff bottles if you do a search ...and all in tribute. So is makes me feel pretty good about this acquisition !
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2016, 04:11:40 am »

Dear Pat,

     While Pin's point that the best calligraphy is always very symmetrical is quite valid, something about your bottle
really 'speaks' to me. I think it is 'right' as well.

     In 1981, a HKG dealer with whom I haven't dealt since, sold me a black & white Nephrite Jade plaque signed Lu Zigang,
claiming it was genuine Ming, and charged me US$2,800. I was to send him the funds on my return to Israel, a month later.
I went from HKG to Singapore, and showed it to friends over Shabbat dinner. On Sunday, the friend shlepped me to the museum in Singapore dealing with Asian arts, where the curator had kindly come in as a favour, to look at my jade piece.

    She categorically stated that it was 18th C., NOT Ming, and worth US$800. She kindly FEDEXed it back (or might have hand carried it to Hong Kong; I know she took care of returning it) to him for me, and I used the money I'd 'saved' to buy my first Rolex watch, a stainless steel model! Roll Eyes

Happy Easter to those who observe!
Best,

Joey
     
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2016, 09:18:47 pm »

Hi all

The bottle arrived today, and i can not emphasize enough how much I like it and how it looks and feels in my hand.  Thanks for all your help! 

George and Joey

I woul appreciate any additional info you get from Stanford (Joey) and the seller (George). 

Much appreciated as always!
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2016, 10:12:07 pm »

Hi all

The bottle arrived today, and i can not emphasize enough how much I like it and how it looks and feels in my hand.  Thanks for all your help! 

George and Joey

I woul appreciate any additional info you get from Stanford (Joey) and the seller (George). 

Much appreciated as always!

Wonderful Pat !  Big congratulations .. ! 

Yes, I still am, and plan to stay in touch with the seller in the future..
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« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2016, 06:04:32 am »

Dear Pat,

      Great! I hope to see it in Nov., when I am in Bangkok. I will send a query to my cousin Dror, who's at Stanford, and to Mel Bacharach (a cousin of Burt's), who is an Alumnus and goes to all their football games (He actually bragged about that to me  Huh).
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2017, 08:23:24 pm »

George/Joey

Any updates on this?  After seeing Giovanni's bottle, it reminded me of my open mystery bottle....

Thanks!
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2017, 10:50:38 am »

George/Joey

Any updates on this?  After seeing Giovanni's bottle, it reminded me of my open mystery bottle....

Thanks!

Nothing more from Me Pat...
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2017, 05:29:21 pm »

Dear Pat,

     Nothing from me either. Mel Bacharach was not at the convention as far as I know, and my cousin Dror has not gotten in touch either. And I didn't get to Bangkok in Nov....
Sorry.
Best,
Joey
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2017, 06:53:04 pm »

Thanks George and Joey!
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