Early Faceted Snuff Bottle -European Cut

[RW]

Hello Everyone,

This is a recent acquisition. Rare in form, I am opening this thread as a research topic on the development of early Chinese faceted snuff bottles, influenced by European styling but made for Chinese tastes in closer study
 Sapphire blue is found among the broader range of wares thought to be Kangxi, and considered to be of European style,
 The first monochrome examples were carved or moulded in the Bavarian crystal style in the broadest terms, and with many having the added roundel panels on the main sides. And, on close examination of the details, we see clear distinctive features demonstrating at even the early stages of bottles, some clear Chinese preferences in design elements, for example:
 

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Beautiful bottle in great color. I have one faceted bottle but need to go dig it out to see the pattern.

[RW]

Pat,
 I very much appreciate your post, coming from an experienced collector like yourself, it means a lot. Please do post your bottle when you have the chance. I would love to see it. I will continue to do more research on this topic, and will add info that may be of interest.
  I am finding more contrasts than comparisons between this one and w/the Schonfeld example. I believe that one to be a a later inspired piece to possibly earlier ones which would show better color and deeper and more intricate carvings as w/this one
Here is the link to the Christie's sale of that one for convenience to anyone who wants a look

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/an-unusual-european-style-cut-glass-snuff-bottle-5658772-details.aspx?from=salesummary&intObjectID=5658772&sid=2bdd37a8-00cd-48bd-b48c-07785b079b92

Best,
Kevin

[George]

The bottle was described by Christie's as an unusual pattern, and was dated from 1840-1910. It may have had an earlier design influence.

Another really interesting and beautiful bottle Kevin !

I am not an expert about glass by any means, but am fascinated with early glass, and glass composition .. How the processes and influences transitioned between the earlier European glass to the Palace glass shops via Kilian Stumpf, and the many other missionaries that brought new glass techniques to the Palace glass shops. 

Christies 19th century dating matches some information within an aritcle, "Both China and Bavaria Favored Glass Snuff Bottles", by Heiner Schaefer via Arts of Asia, November-December 1988.

"The nineteenth century was the most important one for the Bavarian snuff bottles. This period has many examples showing the very best quality in glass making and decoration. The art of Venetian glass had been rediscovered and very experienced glass maker, cutter and painters came to Bavaria in the mid nineteenth century".

Generally the different types of Bavarian glass making, all of which are found in snuff bottles, can be classified. Yours seems to match the type of decoration ( by glass maker ) described as #3, "threaded glass with bands, festoons, including filigree and millefiori".

[RW]

George,
  Many thanks for your post, glad that you like it!   

I did some digging on the on the presence of the elongated bubbles with information on the subject found on the Society of Historical Archeology web page:
 Mouth blown tool finished bottles tend to have vertically elongated bubbles since the glass of a tooled finish was blown with the remainder of the bottle, rather than applied after the removal of the blow pipe
 
https://sha.org/bottle/body.htm#Bubbles

Very fine lapidary polish marks can be seen through out the surfaces of this one which can only be seen under magnification.

The lapidary may have had to cut through tiny bubbles in some areas, the lip and side facets to create even surfaces which would create the appearance of chipping without further indications of damage such as cracks or webbing in the glass

The earliest faceted bottles seem to all have the flat foot feature, the one here w/the beveled protruding rectangular footrim, recessed oval foot would be a later improvement by the lapidary.

The lapidary cuts of the faceted bottles became more rounded and not so deep by the Daoguang period.  Those bottles were also generally larger than this one which is also almost one cm shorter than the Schonfeld example. The Bavarian counterparts were much larger still than the Schonfeld one,  with the mostly long fluted necks and larger bodies

This one may have come from the Boshan center of bottle making where many German workers lived

Best,
Kevin

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Kevin,

      This bottle intrigues me. Except for the fact that the neck looks exactly like a Chinese snuff bottle neck, the bottle looks like it is a Bavarian (or at least Central European) snuff bottle. But it looks "too
European" for my taste.

      And I can't say why, but Hilde's bottle looks older to me than yours.
Confused,
Joey

[RW]

Dear Joey,
 Thank you for your post.
 
The reason I say her bottle appears to be the newer example is that by comparing the profiles of the side facets, the ones on her bottle have rounded edges with less depth. The edges of the faceted bottles became slightly rounded over time, making the character of her's look newer with also a much less developed pattern in comparison. 

 The small size, 6.2 cm high would be Chinese rather than Bohemian. Those bottles were quite large, 10- 15cm in height, and were handled differently for snuff use from the smaller bottles

 Very European in style, yes, which is a theme that is more evident with the painted bottles, but Europe was a fascinating subject in the Qing period. So the bottle could have been meant for that segment of snuff users who held that sentiment in the home market, if not made as a special gift or for export to the Bohemian market, the very region where the teachers in glass making had come from

Kevin

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Kevin,

     Heiner Schaefer brought his Bavarian snuff bottles to London in 1999, and showed them at the ICSBS convention there that year. They were actually more in the range 15-20 cm (or 150-200 mm, as I prefer, when referring to Chinese snuff bottles), and were not at all to my taste.

     I must be honest with you - I've seen possibly 3 or 4 of these Chinese size and neck examples, in my almost 46 years of collecting, and that includes Hilde's and yours. How many have you seen, that you state that the edges of the faceted bottles became more rounded over time? That is true of the octagonal faceted examples, by the way, but I'm not sure it translates into this group. The design is so different.

    I agree with you that European subjects, like other Foreign subjects, designs and materials, were of special interest because they were perceived as exotic. The Moghul and Moghul-style jade snuff bottles and other wares, called by the Qing Court 'Hindustani wares', are another example.

     Among my Jade snuff bottles I have a few fine 18th C. Palace Workshops examples of those. Mine are all Chinese made in Moghul style, though a friend of mine has one which is quite clearly original Moghul work in his collection, which was either sent as a gift, was tribute, or was commissioned from China. The jade is different, and the Chinese-made bottles also tend to have some obvious Chinese  details, like very classic Chinese Taotie, incorporated into the otherwise Moghul-style  design.

    Best,
Joey

Dear Joey,
 Thank you for your post.
 
The reason I say her bottle appears to be the newer example is that by comparing the profiles of the side facets, the ones on her bottle have rounded edges with less depth. The edges of the faceted bottles became slightly rounded over time, making the character of her's look newer with also a much less developed pattern in comparison. 

 The small size, 6.2 cm high would be Chinese rather than Bohemian. Those bottles were quite large, 10- 15cm in height, and were handled differently for snuff use from the smaller bottles

 Very European in style, yes, which is a theme that is more evident with the painted bottles, but Europe was a fascinating subject in the Qing period. So the bottle could have been meant for that segment of snuff users who held that sentiment in the home market, if not made as a special gift or for export to the Bohemian market, the very region where the teachers in glass making had come from

Kevin

[RW]

Dear Joey
  Many thanks for all the great information. Hoping to find more helpful information on the faceted bottles, I will continue to add to this topic as I do more research here

I will retrace my steps, but I may have made an inference in stating that the facets in general showed less detail as we approach the latter part of the 19th C from what I read on the octagonal bottles, as you had given
 
Finessing the detail of the foot with the slightly recessed oval would also be completely in character of the Chinese lapidary in creating luxurious artwork, but probably not so w/the Bohemian bottles- I am still researching this point

Not lost here on me either is the feel of a bottle meant for a woman with the 8 diamond point pattern rather than the 8 sides of the standard faceted bottle

You have been a source of inspiration to me to find better more interesting bottles while doing more research, as well since starting on this site, many thanks
Have seen the Mughal jade exhibit at the Met Museum, NYC several times- very beautiful and luxurious work - hope to see photos of those from your collection, maybe in a few posts which should be inspiring to many

Best,

Kevin

 

[YT]

Dear Kevin,

This is two other profile of the Schonfeld bottle for you to compare.

Cheers,
YT

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Finally found mine.  Found in Hangzhou, China in 1999. It is slightly over 3 inches tall.  Well used and had to do a thorough cleaning job to get rid of remaining stuff caked on.

S-3 B-229

[RW]

 Dear YT,
  Many thanks for the post. Having a full view now of the sides, I like the angular dimension in the profile, very elegantly done. And, I will continue to refer to the photos as a reference

Best,

Kevin

Pat,

 Grateful for the post, very interesting bottle, thank you. You may have seen this one showing similar raised faceted panels in a link I am providing below from a Christie's sale
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/chinese-works-of-art-online-only-snuff-bottles-books/two-carved-monochrome-glass-bottles-72/1119

Hangzhou is less than 1000 km from Shandong province with the city Boashan an early glass making center. It is thought that if not an import from Bohemia for the Chinese market, German workers settling in that city in the late 1800's may have produced the barrel shaped bottle in the Christie's sale-  However, European skilled workers living in China had spread their influence in glass making for 2 centuries prior so dating it should depend on other factors such as the manner in which the bottle was made and similarities in character such as alkali buildup around the surfaces, etc in relation to other documented bottles to which we have a date, rather than the time in which a larger group of European people settled there.

Best,

Kevin

1/6/16:
  As an early example of the European style side faceting influence which would predate the late 19th C settlement of German people in Boashon, and also serving as one possible precursor to the Schonfeld example in side detail, pictured below is a slender sapphire blue bottle with typical Chinese bamboo side decoration blended with European faceting, possibly made at the  Imperial glassworks, 1720- 1780. The bottle was sold at the George and Mary Bloch sale, Bonhams 27 May 2012, lot 112.

 

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

So now I've seen 6 examples! I must admit that I don't like any of them.
I do like the octagonal examples, though. So I'm not 'totally anti-European style'. 
Best,
Joey

[RW]

 Dear Joey,
 
 I greatly appreciate your input, many thanks.

 And,  I may continue to add to this topic at a later date w/any interesting or rare links I may find in researching the theme of the different early Chinese glass bottles with the European facet styling, and made to suit the preferences of the Chinese market

Best,

Kevin

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Kevin,

     You have shined a light on an aspect of glass snuff bottles that most people were ignorant of, myself included.
Thank you,
Joey

[George]

I found an amethyst colored Bohemian mold blown glass bottle..

Same design on both sides with flat base.

I noticed that all the pics within this topic must have been lost during our last server problem..

If both Kevin and Pat could re-post your images, that would be great..

[Wattana]

Nice example George.
Although, like Joey, this type of bottle does not appeal to me.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear George,

     Tom has taken the words out of my mouth! Or at least out of my earlier posts! 
And you are correct - I can't access the earlier illustrations. But I was still able to use the link from a Bloch Sale illustration he posted.
Best,
Shabbat Shalom,
Joey

Noce example George.
Although, like Joey, this type of bottle does not appeal to me.

[George]

I hear you guys... It is not my taste as well.. 

While doing more Bohemian bottle searching, found something called a Star Burst type bottle..

Keep your eyes out for one of these.. They place about a 2000.00 value on them.  Not really finding much within any auction house archives that could give an idea of value for a regular faceted and other type of cut Bohemian bottles.

http://www.glswrk-auction.com/039b.htm

[RW]

Hello  George, everyone!

 Thank you for the added research

Below is a link to an 18th miniature amber-brown glass snuff bottle from the Bloch sale part X

 http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2015/snuff-bottles-from-mary-george-bloch-collection-part-x-hk0576/lot.132.html

by following the link, you will see a very distinctive flower pattern incorporating 8 petals as the center- And, although, done in a completely different manner and requiring much more fire tooling work, the one I show, the number 8 was also incorporated in the make-up of the flower on each raised panel.
  The auction catalogue goes on to state that once faceting was adopted as a method to decorating glass, it could be applied to any shape. Here we see significant differences in shape between the two, however, they are linked by the same auspicious theme  
 Each bottle shows as the focus an 8 petal flower. The number has an auspicious meaning. The word "8" sounds similar to the one for wealth and prosper. (although not described as such in the listing, it could be a highly stylized rendering of the 8 petal lotus) 8 might also be viewed as a significant number as an early faceted bottle design feature, with the standard heavier bottle having 8 sides
 
The European flower patterns from the link, although thematically similar to Chinese bottles shown here, seem to show less care in bottle design with a hurried production appearance, as opposed to the Chinese bottles which from their inception as we know were highly prized symbols of wealth, and required great mastery of skills to produce in the early stages of snuff taking by the affluent class

And, following the link to the European star burst bottles, one might quickly see the distinctive European character of the necks, in deep contrast to the neat and shorter necks to the Chinese bottles

I saved some photos of Pat's yellow glass bottle which was found less than 1000 km's away from the glass making center of Boshan.  looking at the base of his the 2 are similar in composition of both the foot and of the footrim. Although the one I show has a different character in both of these areas, each has a recessed oval foot, although more slightly so in mine, and a beveled footrim smaller more defined in the one I show. The bases to the European bottles as we know are flat

Although more subtly stated in the example I show in both areas, very similar lapidary qualities in the foot and footrim features are also found in a ruby red glass example that was sold this past March during Asia Week at Bonhams, NY. The example was sold on behalf of the Joanna Lau Sullivan Trust, and by the catalogue was attributed to the Imperial Palace workshops 1730-1800
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23744/lot/6081/

The European influence in early Chinese bottle making and design was significant under the direction of Jesuit artisan teachers. So in linking important early design features of the bottles produced by each side, and then separating the two cultures of thought by the standards set as bottles evolved in both design and workmanship,  we also get a look and feel of when and how the indigo ink might have developed to become bluer than the plant itself, to paraphrase the old Chinese proverb

Best,

Kevin