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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


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Underglaze Copper Red Dragon Designs

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rpfstoneman
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« on: November 26, 2015, 11:51:45 pm »

All,

Here is the first of 2 bottles acquired at the ICSBS meeting in Chicago this last October 2015.

Underglaze Cobalt Blue and Copper Red Dragon Snuff Bottle:
A cylindrical form bottle on a narrowed raised foot rim depicting confronting five clawed copper red dragons in chase of a flaming red pearl.   Each red dragon has centered blue eye pupils and painted with individually arched painted scales.  Surrounding the dragons are puffs of smoke and/or clouds of cobalt blue with an intermingling of copper red flames.  The smaller second dragon is rising to the pearl from waves of a copper red sea.  The more stiffly formalized waves likely point to a manufacture date in the second half of the 19th century.  The bottle base has an apocryphal six character Shunzhi (1644-1661) mark in cobalt blue and a museum collection inventory number. 

Red-orange agate cabochon stopper with an animal horn spoon.  Height is 7.5 cm without the stopper and main body of the bottle is 3.0 cm wide. 

The dragons on this bottle are not only reaching for the flaming pearl, in which they are often depicted, but the forelegs are positioned as well to fend off the other dragon in pursuit.  The pearl is deemed to contain the essence of the moon and was a symbol of the dual influence of nature, the ‘yin’ to the dragon’s ‘yang’ (Robert Keiner, In Search of a Dragon).  The loss of the pearl would result in the subsequent loss of the dragon’s power as well.

The two dragons facing each other with one rising from the sea expresses a hope for a happy meeting or reunion.  The smaller dragon in the presence of a larger additionally represents an old and young dragon, conveying a wish for an official position to pass from one generation to the next (Terese Tse Bartholmew, Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art, 5.8.1)

Period: ca. 1850-1900.

Condition: Very good with just a few minor firing flaws and expected abrasive ware on the surface constant with use.

Provenance: Lizzadro Collection; sold out of the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Art Collection, Elmhurst, Illinois.

I believe the age to be within the correct range, but feel free to let me know if there are any corrections or additions which could add to the description of the bottle.  Enjoy Charll




* Lizzadro Copper Red Dragons_A.jpg (170.4 KB, 600x800 - viewed 48 times.)

* Lizzadro Copper Red Dragons_B.jpg (166.99 KB, 600x800 - viewed 27 times.)

* Lizzadro Copper Red Dragons_C.jpg (163.03 KB, 600x800 - viewed 21 times.)

* Lizzadro Copper Red Dragons_D.jpg (160.06 KB, 600x800 - viewed 23 times.)

* Lizzadro Copper Red Dragons_E.jpg (150.5 KB, 582x600 - viewed 28 times.)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 12:55:01 pm by rpfstoneman » Report Spam   Logged

Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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richy88
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 12:52:15 am »

Nice bottle Charll!

I agreed with your dating as well.

Regards.


Richard
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2015, 01:44:51 am »

Very nice bottle indeed Charll!
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Best Regards

Pat
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 09:31:40 am »

Dear Charll,
nice bottle with a successfully fired red. It has some oddities at least to me:
I have never seen a Shunzhi mark on a snuff bottle, and perhaps never even on big porcelain pieces.
The dragon emerging from water is unusually high, it almost touches the pearl, which usually is indeed equidistant or more closer to the big dragon for what I have seen. Perhaps it is because of the waves, which looks bigger than usual.
I don’t remember of having seen the nails and fingers drawn like that, looking as a single piece, without the line separating the two parts.
Now, some notes:
Is the body a bit barrel type or is it due to lens distortion?
Is there some reason pointing toward an earlier date than Guangxu? I see all the features that we are usually attributed to a Guangxu dating.
I would not classify the foot as a narrow one, it seems indeed between normal and a bit wide to me.
And I found odd your notes about the position of the legs, it is absolutely standard to me.
These are my notes, not meaning that I don’t like your bottle, a nice one and I particularly like the red, the clouds which are more elaborated than usual, and the neck, a bit everted and a bit longer than normal. And of course the individually drawn scales.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 01:44:35 pm »

Giovanni,

Here's the best I can do to address your questions:

1) I don’t remember of having seen the nails and fingers drawn like that, looking as a single piece, without the line separating the two parts.

Good observation and something to keep in the back of our minds as a diagnostic.  Take a look at bottle #18 in Joey's catalog "In Search of a Dragon".  It appear to have the same or similar claw design.  Also look at the dappling (i.e., dots) used to add structure to the horns, noses, and the pearl.  This dappling use and the fact that the dragon scales are not simple cross-hatching, but painted as individual stokes, leads me to believe it could be an earlier bottle.  The uniform wave construction would tend to lead to later a later dating from what I've observed. 

2) Is the body a bit barrel type or is it due to lens distortion?

Yes the sight curving in of the body at the shoulders and slight taper to the base gives this effect. The bottle is clay coil construction as see by horizontal coil lines on the interior.  These coils which are stacked upon each other appear to be about 4mm in width.  The bottle is glazed on the interior.

3) Is there some reason pointing toward an earlier date than Guangxu? I see all the features that we are usually attributed to a Guangxu dating. 

See response to #1 above.  But Guangxu is within my date range!  Wink
 
4) I would not classify the foot as a narrow one, it seems indeed between normal and a bit wide to me.

Yes it is more or less a standard foot.  I was just referring that body rests on a foot ring that has a width less than the body of bottle.

5) I have never seen a Shunzhi mark on a snuff bottle, and perhaps never even on big porcelain pieces.

This is one of the reasons why I had to have it.  This is the only bottle I've seen with a Shunzhi mark, but I no idea of its significance.

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 02:19:43 pm »

Thank you dear Charll, very instructive. I didn't know that it was coil constructed, that is important and surely a valuable plus. I said that I did like the neck of the bottle, but now knowing that the body is really slightly barrel shaped I like it even more. Good purchase!
Giovanni
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 11:04:19 am »



The dragons on this bottle are not only reaching for the flaming pearl, in which they are often depicted, but the forelegs are positioned as well to fend off the other dragon in pursuit.  The pearl is deemed to contain the essence of the moon and was a symbol of the dual influence of nature, the ‘yin’ to the dragon’s ‘yang’ (Robert Keiner, In Search of a Dragon).  The loss of the pearl would result in the subsequent loss of the dragon’s power as well.

The two dragons facing each other with one rising from the sea expresses a hope for a happy meeting or reunion.  The smaller dragon in the presence of a larger additionally represents an old and young dragon, conveying a wish for an official position to pass from one generation to the next (Terese Tse Bartholmew, Hidden Meanings in Chinese Art, 5.8.1)



Lots of information new to me in your description Charll... Very interesting indeed.

Another stunning bottle Charll, and can I saw wow to the stopper too !
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