Westerners

[wgeoff]

I bought these two bottles at auction recently (they were sold as a pair and from the old brown sticky tape on the base of both, came from the same source) on a whim because one bottle, the smaller one, showed what appeared to be two individuals in western dress (and because they were cheap).

And it's true, they are in western dress - I've never seen that before on a bottle.



The smaller bottle is just 5cm tall (no stopper) and the larger one is 6.5cm. There is no calligraphy.

Any ideas when they were painted?

Geoff

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Geoff

The only IPB artist at the turn of the century that painted western motifs was Tang Zichuan. Since the bottle is unsigned it is hard to know if from him or not. It could also have been painted later than that..

Do you have a picture of the reverse side ?

[George]

Looks like the one person has caught a snake ?

Maybe early 20th century American missionaries ?

[wgeoff]

Thanks Pat and George - I think it's meant to be a walking stick. But your suggestion of American missionaries may be close George - the figures do look like they may be 1900s Mormons.

The painting on the reverse side is very crude, which is why I didn't show it the first time. But here it is



The small bottle has some dirty blobs in it - is it possible to remove these without harming the paint?

I've looked at some Tang Zichuan in 'Inkplay in Microcosm', I don't think this could be by him.
Just an unusual subject.

Geoff

[Steven]

Hi Geoff,

Interesting bottles!

The western subject is not so common, I have seen some some Ye family bottles painted with Western figures also Tang Zichang as Pat suggested. This one more like a shangdong bottle according to the way the blue color of far mountains which is close to the bigger one.

Anyway  if its not expensive, I would have gone for the interesting motif.

Steven

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi  Geoff

Looks  to me more  like  two  Chinese  men  in  typical  Shanghai  mid- 1930's  dress  -  sort  of long    Chinese   smock / coat  +  western  trilby

See  any  Chinese  gangster  movie  set in SH  before   WW 2 !

Would a  westerner  hold a  dead  fish ?

Cheers

Peter

[wgeoff]

Agreed Peter, but whatever they are, it's unusual.

Geoff

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi  Geoff

Yes  , very  unusual.

But  -  IF  Chinese  men   with   trilby  hats  -  that  puts the   date  of  painting  post- 1930

Cheers

Peter

[Wattana]

Hi Peter,

I think the two gentlemen are meant to be Westerners. Look at the size of the nose on the chap at left!

Tom

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi  Tom

Maybe  he's  been to Korea  for a   nose  job ! 

Cheers
Peter

[wgeoff]

And an eye job as well Peter

[Peter Bentley 彭达理]

Hi Geoff,

....And a  white  beard  ! 

And in close-up the   snake  is  obviously a  walking  stick

Methinks  you  are right.............tis  one of  us   gweilos   !

But a  weird    coat  with short  sleeves : looks more  like a  peasant's  smock

Cheers
Peter

PS  :  Did you  get my  epic  compilation  of your  opera  singers  OK ?

[wgeoff]

Yes, I've received it thanks, it's very good.

I've posted a note in the Chinese Opera Characters thread.

Geoff

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

In closeup, the short sleeve looks sort of like a safari jacket.
Joey

[George]

Bringing this topic back up to share a Western or possibly European style painted bottle for comments.

I can only guess this was a commissioned bottle. With what seems to show a Boudoir doll which was the craze back in the 1920's.

I think it could well have been painted about the same 1920 range.

Sharing for someone else and to hear comments. Any thoughts appreciated. 

[George]

Walter and Steven once talked about a traditional technique using dotting method (to create dark and light using the accumulation of ink 積墨) which he believed was the only feasible method during the age of bamboo stick.

Although Walter was talking about bamboo, is this the same dotting technique seen here ?

[rpfstoneman]

George,

I saw this bottle posted on the Facebook page as well, and yes for the price I would have purchased it in a heartbeat.  The figure on which she is setting the hat does not appear to be a Boudoir doll to me, but a artist jointed manikin on a stand; see picture below.

Charll

[rpfstoneman]

George,

Painted or Printed design?  Steven could be right, for the image with the young lady at the table there does appear to be a halo around the whole image suggesting it could be an imprint image or decal.  Would have to see this on in person to verify or at least get more quality photos.

Charll

[George]

George,

Painted or Printed design?  Steven could be right, for the image with the young lady at the table there does appear to be a halo around the whole image suggesting it could be an imprint image or decal.  Would have to see this on in person to verify or at least get more quality photos.

Charll

Yes, I really do believe detective Steven is absolutely correct. As usual ! 

Rather than that being solely a stand, can it be in part the hand controls for operating the doll ?