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Ji School Artists 1990 - about 2005

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Author Topic: Ji School Artists 1990 - about 2005  (Read 599 times)
Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« on: October 15, 2015, 03:15:22 am »

Hi All

Geoff  recently  posted   some  pics  of his "eagle" bottle  by Wang Jinshan 王金山 painted  in 1998 .

No-one  had   ever   heard  of  Wang Jinshan  before,  but  Steven very cleverly found  the  artist's  name  on an obscure Chinese  website  of  Ji-School  artists

____________________________


http://baike.haosou.com/doc/6439534.html


________________________

I  recently   downloaded  the  entire  website  and  ran it through a  Google  translation  program  which  gives a  rough-n-ready   translation (but  often  goes  haywire  when it  comes to  names,  which Google often  tries to  translate as  having  real meaning :  Lu Junwei  comes  out as  "Rousseau" and  WXS   often  comes  out as  "Wang 3" )

The  result  was  - to say the   very  least  -   very fascinating !

The  website  lists about 100 x  Ji School  artists : 

    -   roughly  40%  are the  big  names (  WXS,  Wang Baichuan,  Fu Guoshun,  Suo Zhenhai  etc - also,   very
        interestingly  :  Hou Yanbin and  even Zhang Rucai... so the  person  who  wrote the  website  was
        not a  total   WXS  acolyte )

    -   roughly  20%  are  up-coming   and  by now  quite  well-known artists  from the  mid  2000s (e.g  Hu
        Xiaoran,  Yuan Shijia, Yu Nong, Pan Jiafang    etc)
 
         all the  above  60% are  in  my data  base
   
     -  roughly 40% are   artists  whose  names  I have NEVER ever   heard of before  apart  from
        a couple that  appear  obscurely on Bill  Patrick's  website  and/or  among David Osborne's  auction sales!

All the   artists on this  website  have  biographical  details  - although  with some errors  e.g  birth date -  and  there  are also   many references to  alternative  names (either  art name  or  real name as the  case  may be)  except  for the  last  8  artists  who  just appear  as a  NAME,  nothing else,  among  whom is   Wang  Jinshan  (So,  sorry,  Geoff  -  nothing else  is  known  about   WJS ....  so far !)

I date this  list  and therefore  when "baike.haosou"  set  up this   website  to  about   2007/ 2008 judging  by:

a) the  latest date  on the  list  of  big-time  awards  to  WXS
b) the absence  of some  important  VMIPB  artists  who  only became  more well-known in the  very  late  2000s

What was  particularly  interesting for  me  was   the  inclusion  in the  list  of some  obscure and  now retired  Wang Guanyu  students,  a   few  of  whose works I  bought   direct  from  WGY  the  first  time  I went to  Hengshui  in  2009  (e.g  Han Ye,  Qiu Shi ). Previously  the  only references  to these   students  were a  few  hand-written  notes  by  Wang Guanyu  himself.  They  never appeared  in CIPMA.

It seems to me  that  every  "LIST"  of  Ji School    artists  reflects  when the  author  went through his  main collecting phase  in life.

Given that  many - if not most -   VMIPB  collectors   seem to  go  through a rather crazy  "collect-anything-and-everything"  phase,  as I did  from about  2007 -2012 ,  each "LIST"    gives a  "snap-shot"  of a  5 - 10 year  period of  peak  activity  by a  certain number  of  artists  :  some of the  oldies ( slowly fading  out) and  some of the  newbies (quickly  fading in and  out like  shooting stars)

I can  clearly  see this  in Bill  Patrick's  website  which  (until  I finally  post  all my own  bottles  there ,  and  not  counting   the  CIPMA  scans which I sent Bill, plus a couple  of   other  book scans which I also  sent  Bill and  which he later mounted  on to his  website )  mainly  reflects   a  snap-shot  of  Bill's  buying passion  during several   visits to  Hengshui in the  early  2000s,  particularly  from  students  of  Li Shouxun and  Hou Yanbin.

The same  applies to  David  Osborne's  auction  bottles,  many  which  were  bought  in the  same  period,  i.e.   early  2000s :  another  snap-shot,  roughly contemporaneous  with  Bill

Again, I can see the  same  snap - shot  effect  when I  look at the  S'Pore  Nanyang    landmark  book  of  bottles  which  were mostly  bought  in the  1990s / very  early 2000s  (and  to a lesser  extent  I see  it  in the  pics which  Richy  gave me  of  his  VMIPBs,  most of  which  I date to the  1990s  and the  early  2000s)

CIPMA itself is a snap-shot , bearing  in mind that   every  artist  who  appears  in CIPMA  (reportedly) had to  pay a  fee to be  included  in the  book,  so  only serious  and active  artists  in the  mid  2000s   were  included  in  CIPMA

I can  also  see  the  snap-shot  effect  in  what  Geoff  has  shown me  of his  collection,  most of  which  he told  me  was collected in the  1990s  (thus  some  real  gems  e.g  his  Lu Jianguang  masterpieces !)

Same  same  snap-shot effect  for  Pat's  collection  which, as  far as  I can understand, was  mostly  collected  in the 1990s  and  early 2000s (please  correct me  if  I am  wrong  on that  point, Pat).

Pat once sent me a  list of  all the  artists  whose  works  he  collected  and they  are  all in  my  DB by  Pin Yin  names.  But  still for  many of them I have  zero  biographical  information  and  in many  cases   still  not  even the  correct  Chinese  character  name . (If  you  scan my  DB  for  artists   with the  code "Z"  as  the  source  origin  you  will  pick  up  all the  artists  whose  works  Pat collected, and which I  still cannot  trace  beyond a  Pin Yin  name  given to me  by Pat.)

I once  proudly  boasted to  Pat  that  I  thought  my  DB  had  captured  at least  80 -85%%  of  all  VMIPB  artists.  Pat  put  me   firmly  in my place  with a :  "NOT SO  Peter  !  -  barely   50%  if  even that"  no-holds-barred  very  frank reply.

I was  wrong and Pat  was  right !  Embarrassed

And of course  the  most important  snap-shot  of  all  was  in J.H. Leung's  "A New  Look  of  Inside Painted  Snuff  Bottles"   which  gives a  snap-shot  of  the  MIPB scene  when he  collected  in the  late  1970s /  1980s /  very  early  1990s

So far  I have  made  no attempt to  patch  together  all these  snap-shots  although  they  are  ALL included  in my data  base (plug ! plug !),  which  includes    biographical  details  of  every  artist    whose  name I  have  encountered,  and  examples  of their  contemporary  bottle  pics   from  every  possible  snap-shot I could  get my hands  on,  starting with  current  web-sites ( both English and Chinese)  and  going  back as  far as  possible  via  journals and  books.

As  far as  I know  my  DB  is the  only  complete  record   and  summation  of  all these  separate  threads and  source  material.

I  think  I am  quickly  getting too old  to  weld  my  DB  into a  smooth-reading record  of  every  artist :   his/her  biographical details from earliest to  latest  reference  and  examples  of  all his/ her  pics   grouped  by  year-of-painting   showing the  progression of  skill (or  otherwise)  from  budding  student   to   master  -  to  faded  master (or  in some  rare cases  :  to  new   heights  of  creativity  in later  life  e.g.  Sun Honglin and  Fu Guoshun)

Hopefully  a new younger   and  enthusiastic  collector  of  VMIPBs  with better  computer  skills  than  mine   will  pick  up my  DB  and   take  up where  I must eventually  leave  off

It  took me  24  hours  ( I mean  3  x days  @  8 hours/ day !)   total  elapsed time  to  work through  the baike.haosou.com  website  and  categorize  every old / new  artist  for  inclusion  in my  DB

The  only  (small)  compensation is that   MSN  data  bases  automatically  insert  new  entries  in alphabetical  order !  Thus  I  whenever  I    cut-n-paste a  load  of  new   artist  files  into  my  DB  ,  MSN  automatically  inserts  them  into the  DB in the  correct  alphabetical  positions.

Thank  Bill  Gates  for  small  mercies !

I attach  the  complete  baike.haosou.com  website  in Chinese  and  (bad)  English  translation

I  had to  break it  into   two parts  to stay  under the  400kB  limit  for  Forum  attachments

There's an  overlap  at  Hu Xiaoran and  Yuan Shijia

Happy  downloading and  research !

Cheers

Peter

PS :  A  funny   thing  about the baike.haosou.com  website was that  it  lists  an  artist  named  "Song Yi Min"
At  first  I thought  this  must  be a  misspelling  for  Song Yi  Ming ,  who  was  certainly    at the  forefront  of  VMIPB artists  in  2007/2008 .    But  NO!    It's  really  Song Yi Min 宋 义   not  Song Yi Ming  宋义  and  the  biographical  details   show  that   they  are definitely two  different  artists.

PPS  :  George -  please  pin this !








« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 05:48:25 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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SteveC
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 02:13:56 pm »

Peter,  it is very interesting to see how other foreigners were involved with the Hengshui gang in the 1990s and early 2000s as I was.  Liu Yizi introduced me to guys like Dong Xue, Wang Guanyu and others and we had dinner and drinking parties.  In the 1990s only the Nanyang Chinese paid any attention to this art, not HK and certainly not Mainland collectors.   I am fluent in Chinese and lived in Beijing from 1993 to 2008, and my wife is from south of Shijiazhuang,  and my father in law was a good amateur Chinese painter,  all this helps and gave me cred when dealing with artists in their own language and environment.  If you really want to do a deep dive you go and get to know and talk to guys like Liu, Dong, Wang and whoever.  They were cliquish in the old days and competitive, I am not so sure now and the field seems to have grown tremendously. 

Best regard,
Steve Carroll
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 09:46:15 pm »

Hi Steve

Welcome to the  Forum ! 

From what you say, it seems  you  preceded  me to  Hengshui  by  about 10 years.  I started  visiting  HS  from about  2008 onwards.  I regret that  I did  not  start  collecting  MIPBs  in the   1980s when  I  first  started  working  in  China

Yes, the Nanyang  group  cornered the  market  in  1990s.  I have met  the  S'Pore  collectors  several times and  seen  something of their  amazing collections ( mouth watering !)

Did  you  ever  bump into  Bill  Patrick and   David  Osborne ?  They visited  HS  often in the  early  2000s.

Please  post  pics  of your  bottles  if  you  ever  have  time  ( note that there's a max  size   of  400kB  per  pic attachment)

Cheers
Peter

Cheers
Peter
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 10:43:51 am »

This is the first snuff bottle I ever bought, I got it in Shanghai around 1994.  I bought it because I liked the painting which is somewhat loosely in the style of Fu Baoshi, Chi Bai Shi, etc.  I had no idea who painted it.  A couple years later in Beijing at a big art show I ran into Liu Yizi who had a booth and was displaying his works.  His dad, Liu Ziyi, was with him to support him and show his son had a famous dad who taught him.  It was curious that the elder called himself "the strange one from Ji Pai" and I found my bottle (attached here) was signed by the old man.  The next day I went back and showed him this bottle and old Liu was shocked.  I started to become friends from that show.  The son's works were then already very modernized with the Zen theme.  The original when not back lit is darker and more pleasing. 
Steve

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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 10:58:22 am »

Liu Yizi, 1986, 12 eminent scholars enjoying paintings and poetry. There are six scholars on each side. 7.5 cm high. Signed Yizi.  I bought this from Yizi at his home in Shijiazhuang around 1997.  He had stopped painting several years earlier,  his eyes and hands were not up to the task and he only had about 25 of his own bottles left.  I asked how many bottles he did in his lifetime and he guessed less than 1,000.  In the 1970-1980s most were traditional commissioned works of classical heros, etc.


* Liu Yizi 12 Scholars front side 1986.JPG (447.29 KB, 1644x1466 - viewed 23 times.)

* Liu Yizi 12 Guang Xu scholars viewing painting and poems reverse side.JPG (535.38 KB, 1908x1489 - viewed 18 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 07:52:56 pm »

I like them both, but favor the first one a bit more..

Wonderful story about Liu Yizi !   What a great couple of bottles !
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 09:27:30 pm »

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sharing the Wonderful bottles and great story.

I love both bottles, maybe the motif of the second bottle appealed me a little mores.

Liu Ziyi is one of the greatest IP artist I admired, so is Li Yizi. I have been hunting for their bottles, not much luck so far.

Here is a couple of bottles  from my collection. The first one is a great gift from our Forum member Joey, its still my favorite bottle, the second one is a Liu Ziyi's early bottle which just like you mentioned Hero bottle.

Cheers!

Steven

Steven



* lzy1_low.jpg (161.5 KB, 800x854 - viewed 27 times.)

* lzy2_l.jpg (178.25 KB, 800x780 - viewed 23 times.)

* IMG_2171.jpg (201.18 KB, 600x902 - viewed 24 times.)

* IMG_2172.jpg (253.51 KB, 600x865 - viewed 22 times.)
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2015, 08:51:47 am »

Hi  All

Thanks for  this latest  input  from   Steve C  and  Steven

I found  Steve C's  info  about  Liu ZiYi  particularly  interesting , especially  this  new (to me)  art  name : "The Strange One  from  Ji  Pai"

Steven - could  you   give me the  correct  Pin Yin and  Chinese  characters  for that name  please?

I  attach  a    word.doc  which  gives  all the  various  art  names  Liu & Son  have  used  in the past (and that I have  discovered  so far )

Incidentally, there's  a very  important  book   which  was published  recently   by Liu Yizi and  his  closest  associate   artists  (  e.g.  Hu Xiaoran,  Yuan Shijia  ,  Suo Jing , Zhang Luhua   etc )  called "Exploring the  Unknown" . I thought  I had  already  scanned  it and included  in my  DB  but it  turns  out  not  so .
Nearly  all the   bottles  in the book  are  abstract  landscapes - the  kind I love  most.

I mention this  book  in Part 2 of my  ICSBS   article,  as well  as  giving   credit to  Liu  Yizi  for  his pioneering role  in  VMIPB  creative  art.

I agree that  Liu  Yizi is  a very  influential   artist  !

Cheers
Peter

* Alternate Names - Liu Ziyi & Liu Yizi.doc (20 KB - downloaded 6 times.)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 08:54:46 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2015, 11:50:59 am »

Hi Peter,

I have heard of Liu Ziyi being called "The Strange One  from  Ji  Pai"冀派一怪 which basically tells that his painting style is different from others, and its a recognition by the collectors. His painting was influenced by a very famous painter 任伯年 Ren Bonian, actually we can see a quite few of inside painting artists from late 70s to 80s follow Ren's style. Liu Ziyi is the one did the best.

I have revised your doc, please let me know if it doesn't work.

Best!

Steven

* Alternate Names - Liu Ziyi & Liu Yizi (3).doc (27.5 KB - downloaded 2 times.)
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2015, 01:42:01 pm »

冀派一怪  Ji pai yi guai or "The Strange One from the Ji (He Bei) School".  Steven you are right,  it was the Ren Bonian style that the elder Liu seemed close to.  I think my two bottles are in that style.   

I communicate with Liu Yizi by email, so if you want his email I am happy to make an electronic introduction.  I use Chinese but he can understand English ok.  In 2001 Yizi came to my Dad's home in Chicago for a week before going to the Houston snuff bottle convention with my brother Ray.  I was in Beijing at the time.  They had a nice time and met Joey and several other collectors.  I also took Yizi and Suo Jing in 2003? to the Singapore convention where the reception was mild to say the least. 

Remember in 1995 when Yizi started to move far away from the traditional copy-based art,  it was very hard, I do not think he sold a lot of bottles in the early days or got much positive feedback.  But he is very strong in character and treated his work as art and his interpretation of what inside painting could be.  I will make some copies of some of my Yizi bottles that show some of his styles though the 1990s. 

Steve

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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2015, 01:58:38 pm »

Steven,

You Yizi bottle is very nice,  it says it was painted in 1992 but he put the calligraphy on later in 2001.  Very normal practice.  I have one in a similar style to the side with the trees and forest dated 1994 I will post when I can take a good picture. 

The Ziyi bottle is of two famous characters from the novel "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", and the calligraphy is outstanding.  Old Liu's calligraphy was outstanding.  The poem is good too,  it fits the painting perfectly. 

Steve C
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2015, 02:02:42 pm »

The older Ziyi bottle is dated 1979,   that is pretty early. 
Steve
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2015, 04:54:38 pm »

Thanks Steve for you insights!

Yes, I love the Yizi bottle, both Dad & Son's bottles are not focus on the detail of painting, but the strokes, very fluent ...

Your two bottles do have a lot of influence from Ren Bonian, specially the way the figures were painted.

I have to stand correct that the two figures on my Ziyi bottles are from 'The water Margin ' instead of ' Romance of three Kingdoms' The one standing back is ' Ling Chong' altho I don't know who is the guy in the front .Smiley

Yes, I would love to touch base with Li Yizi if you don't mind send me a private message of his email address.

Best!

Steven
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 06:04:40 pm »

A really interesting discussion and display of bottles from two artists unknown to me, thanks to Steven and Steve.

I'm intrigued by Steve's comment that the Singapore collectors were 'mild' towards these bottles and artists, and I can understand why. When I was collecting in the late 90's, my opinion of a bottle was very much based on the precision of painting as well as the subject, as I guess theirs was too. It is only now, and mostly through this website, that I am starting to appreciate other things (although only slowly), and can understand why some collectors go for this type of bottle.

The website proves it's value again. And I'm proud to have a part to play - Peter started the discussion through reference to a bottle of mine which I didn't even like (at the time). Such is the power of this website.

Geoff

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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 06:44:01 pm »

Hi All,

Thanks to you  all for this  very interesting thread (especially  Geoff for  starting  it ! )

________________________

STEVEN :  Thanks  for the  correction  to my  word  doc :  aaaah  ...  so the  Ji  Pai  =  Ji  School
               That  makes  perfect  sense

I always   download  all these  pics  of bottles  and   the  detailed  background   info  in the  messages (which I copy into  word docs)  then I    add them  into  my  DB  and cross reference  if  alternate   artist names  are  involved (as in this  case)  . I also  attribute the  source  of the background  info  with a  simple  reference that  would  mean something to someone  on the  Forum , but  not to anyone  else ( e.g. "Steven (Forum) 10.2015")

Interesting  about the  influence  of Ren Bonian.  I  had  not  heard of this  artist before,  but the  beauty  of the  internet  is  that one  can immediately  google  examples  of any artist's  paintings .  It's  like  having the  Library  of  Congress  at one's  doorstep (even better - one  doesn't even have to  leave  the  room !)

Personally,  I  don't  particularly like  Liu Yizi's  works - I find  they  are  too  "vivid /  bold / brash "  if those are the  right  words.  Also  they lack fine detail.  I  personally prefer   more  delicate,  finely  detailed  Landscape  bottles (  e.g  Song Yiming) .  However I  recognize  Liu Yizi's  enormous  influence  - as  you  can read  in Part 2 of my  ICSBS  article  in the  side bar .

Strangely, the   Nanyang  Singapore  Group collected  hardly  any of  Liu  Yizi's  works.  On the  other hand,  The Nanyang  Group bought  almost  every  Wang Guanyu  bottle  that he  painted   after  about  1990, also a  large  number  of  Suo Jing's  works .  I find   that my  taste  is very  similar to the  Nanyang  Group's  taste   -  IF  ONLY  I  had  started collecting  in the  late  1980s......  Undecided

But  then again , if that had been the  case  my  home  would  now be wall -to-wall  snuff  bottle  shelves  instead  of  just  one and  half  walls !  And the  annual   cleaning would  take a  month  instead  of a  week
   Grin   Grin   Grin

__________________________

STEVE C :    "I  took Yizi and Suo Jing in 2003? to the Singapore convention where the reception was mild to say the least."   ...

 "Mild to say the  least"  - that  does  not  surprise me  at all.   That  just  about  sums  up the   response  of the ICSBS  to  my  Xian  presentation  which was  almost  10 years  later.  Guess  we must wait  until  2115  before the  ICSBS  takes  any real  interest  in  these   MIPB artists.  Great  pity .

But  what a great  privilege  to   be able to  know these  artists  in their own lifetime,   drink (and get drunk) with them  and  even watch  them  painting .

This reminds  me  of  my last  trip to  BJ  when I  joined the   special  exhibition for the  Jing School.  On the last evening  Jill and  Li Hui  invited  me and   wife  to  a    BBQ  lamb  restaurant.  Zhang Tieshan ( Qin School Grand Master)  was   still in BJ so  he  joined  us.  We  drank so much  that  we ended  going  to the  WC together  and  I joked  with  ZTS : "If  people  ask me   : Do  I know  ZTS ? -  I can say  : Yes  of  course !  We  got  drunk  together and  even pissed   together ! "

BTW  : When you  have  finished  photographing  your Liu Yizi   bottles,  if  you  have time  would  you  please  send me  high-resolution original  copies  by private  email (or else  post to me  on a  memory stick ) ?  All in the  fullness  of time,  if and  when   convenient.

Cheers

Peter

« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 11:22:38 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2015, 01:45:24 am »

Chinese painting has two main styles since around the Ming dynasty,  gongbi or detailed style and xieyi or free hand style.  Since the late Ching dynasty and 20th century some famous free style artists include Ren BoNian, Qi Baishi ,Zhang Daqian and Fu BaoShi.  Zhang Daqian is sometimes called China's Picaso.  For inside painted snuff bottles I enjoy both styles.  Getting good, natural detailed work inside a snuff bottle takes incredible skill and talent.  I also like free style if of a high caliber like the Liu's.  On a landscape you feel like the whole world opens up,  you forget the small space, and you get the tactile experience of holding it in your hand that you cannot get from a painting. 

Another Taiwan painter I got introduced to in the 1970s who is similar to Liu Yizi is He Huaisuo 何懷碩
Take a look at these images.  He was doing this work in 1975.
 https://www.google.com/search?q=%E4%BD%95%E6%87%B7%E7%A2%A9&es_sm=93&biw=1135&bih=772&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCcQ7AlqFQoTCKGav8LK6cgCFUIYHgodK4AJLQ


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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2015, 11:08:55 am »

This is a good article about the art of He Huaishuo of Taiwan.  He greatly admired Fu Baoshi, his senior by 30 or so years. He Huaishuo in turn was 20 years ahead of Liu Yizi.

This is a deep article and shows a lot of class.  Enjoy.
Steve C

http://www.taiwantoday.tw/ct.asp?xItem=112823&ctNode=2198&mp=9
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Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2015, 11:34:14 am »

Hi  SteveC

Thanks for these  amazing threads !

When  I first   started  visiting Hengshui  I  took  some  Chinese  landscape  art  books (which I bought  from Rong Bao Zhai  in Liu Li Chang)   with  me  to  give to the   artists  for  inspiration

I  did not  realize  it  at the  the  time,  but  the  Hengshui  artists  were  light years  ahead of me  and  had  whole  book cases  of  such  traditional and  modern  Chinese  art books  on their  shelves

One  particular  Ji School  master,  Da  Yong  (real name  Zhang Yong)  had  literally  wall- to-wall  piles  of  books  in his  home  :  I am  talking  THOUSANDS  , maybe  even TENS of THOUSANDS  of  art  books  piled   around  his   5,000  sq  foot  apartment

Zhang  Daqian ....  now  there's a thing  .....  ! 

See the  attachment  re  one  of the  last bottles  I ever  bought in Hengshui .

So sad  that  I'm  (now)  not  sure   it  was  actually  painted  by  Da  Yong  himself , even though  he  sold  it  to me personally "as  if" one of his  own  works  .

I   (now)  think it  was  another  case  of a  senior  artist   signing  off  on one  of  his  student's  works,  of  which  I  have  many  hot   smoking   guns  in my  collection (very  sad  to say )

Nonetheless  -  it's  an   amazing  bottle  and  worth every  cent  of the  RMB 20K  I paid for  it

Cheers
Peter



* P325(A).jpg (259.51 KB, 768x1024 - viewed 13 times.)

* P325(B).jpg (260 KB, 768x1024 - viewed 8 times.)

* CC Da Yong books.JPG (46.82 KB, 448x299 - viewed 12 times.)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 11:55:24 am by Peter Bentley 彭达理 » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2015, 01:10:36 pm »

Peter, I love Zhang Daqian and that is a fantastic bottle.  Yeah,  I remember in 1976 meeting students of Ou Haonian, a famous Lingnan school painter.  She was so good at copying her teachers style painting, doing it for years.  She said he would sign some of the students good paintings as a favor.  So you never know and the teacher might hardly know.  I was offered Zhang Daqian real original calligraphy in 1976 for $120 and passed it up.  That was a pity as I was buying much lesser junk at the time. 

I will take pictures, hopefully of better quality,  using the methods shared on this forum and send you higher resolution pics.

Best regards,
SteveC
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2015, 01:48:56 pm »

Hi  SteveC

Again  -  amazing   stuff . Please  keep  it  coming !

When  I  first  started to  go to  BJ  regularly  in  1986-7  I    always  stopped  by  Liu Li Chang  art  street. In  those days  it  was    dusty,  dirty  and  not  renovated.

I  never liked  paintings   before,  but  I was  attracted  to the  black and  white  "Huang Shan" -type  paintings   which were  then the  vogue  in the  hotel  gift  shops.

I  strolled  into  one  shop  in  Liu Li Chang  and  saw  a  few  of those  better quality   Huang Shan  paintings  at  about  RMB1,000 , and then  spotted  one   that  was    quantum   jumps  better  @  RMB5,000

I asked  "why  so   much  better  and  so much more  expensive"  and the  dealer  said  " because  it's  an  original  by the  Master of the HuangShan  painting  school  -  Guo Chuan Zhang "

Needless to say  I bought  that  painting  (although  RMB5K at that  time  was a  small   fortune  based  on my salary  at  that time)   -  it's  now  framed  and hangs  in my  little HK  home   in pride  of  place .
 I  just  LOVE it !

For  the next  couple  of  years  I  became  well-known  in  all the  Liu  Li Chang  art  shops  while I was   scouring for  more  original  Guo Chuan Zhang  paintings  ( I  finally  bought  5 in total)

Sadly  -  financially speaking   -  Guo  Chuan  Zhang  has  not  hit  the  same  heights of  fame   as  Zhang Da Qian ,   although I did  see  one  of  his  paintings in Rong Bao  Zhai  recently @  RMB300,000  - it  was  the  highest priced  painting  on sale   at that  time  (but  auction  prices   are  very  much  lower)

But  I never  collected  for  value  -  I only  ever  collected  for  love

It's  the  same   with  MIPBs.  All  of my  collection is based  on love, never  for value

But it   turns  out that  one  particular  MIPB  artist,   whose   works  I  started  collecting  before  he  hit  the  all-time   Hall  of  Fame /  Super  Grand  Master  Class,     now  sell  for   RMB 200,000 + (real price)   at  Wang Xisan's   shop  in  Hengshui  and  HK$ 800,000 +  "marked"   price  (= US$100K )    in  HK  China  Arts and  Crafts .  

I have a  dozen of his  very best  works,  including  what  I think (personally)  is  his  lifetime  crowning  achievement,   for  which I   paid  the  most  I ever  paid  for  any   VMIPB  in all  my  life.
(See  my  logo  pic  on the  Forum ! )

But  what the  heck  ....  I  will  never  sell  a  single  one.

(Maybe  my  son or  grandson  will  do so  and  become  an instant  millionaire long  after  I am  just  dust )

 Long  story.....  very  much more  to   tell privately

Cheers

Peter

PS:  And  the  funny  thing  is  that  I  don't  give (as  Aussies  would  say)  a  flying  f**k  who  painted  my  bottle  P325 .   Whoever  painted  it  caught the  true essence  of  Zhang Daqian's original   and  captured  it  in a  small  and  beautiful   crystal  bottle  which I can  enjoy for the  rest of  my  life.  My guess  is that  it  was painted  by  a  Da Yong   student -  obviously  very  talented.

I have  consistently found that  some  of THE  best  VMIPBs  are  painted  by  up-coming  students  when  at the  height  of their  creative  and innovative powers  in  their  mid - 20's,  before they  settle  into the  routine  drudgery  of   turning  out  bottles  that can be  sold  commercially when they  branch out on  their  own. 
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