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Baby Bottle with Macro

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Author Topic: Baby Bottle with Macro  (Read 259 times)
AntPeople
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« on: September 23, 2015, 08:39:12 am »

Hi Steven, George and all :

Take a look at this.......

Again, this is the photo



This is the bottle



These are the close-up.... I took the bottle with my Nikon D700, 55mm Macro Manual focus Nikkor lens.... Put onto Photoshop, do min colour and brightness adjustment..... enlarge up to about 180% (when I open up the pictures in Photoshop, I think it was at 16% or there about)..... use iPhone to take various location of the picture on a laptop screen (save time... Grin) and upload the pictures

Top of the head with hair


Nose and Nostril



Mouth & Lips



Ears and Sideburn


Center Bear with Blue and Green Balloon on T Shirt


Right "Hello" on T Shirt


Right Side of Neck Area


The eyes are more "traditionally" painted




The painting technique, IMO, is different compared to the traditional lines and brush stokes.... might be a new method developed by ZL student....... its more like "patching with a sponge" then enhancing with lines and brush stokes... but definitely painted IMO.... The nose and lips look very uniformly blended into the surrounding, you need to make the picture smaller (make the screen to 10%).... then you can see it standing out more from the background.........

Pin

« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 10:24:12 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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George
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 09:00:45 am »

I am just not sure what to make of these images.. I would have expected to see definitive brush strokes for a portrait painting..

Your certainly right about it being a different method of painting.. 

Very interested to hear what the rest of the members think..

The lines ( stitching in babies clothing ? ) seem like they should not be there.. Not sure why they are and why they run into and through the painted areas..



* clothing.jpg (327.25 KB, 795x683 - viewed 7 times.)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 09:49:23 am by George » Report Spam   Logged

AntPeople
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 09:07:40 am »

Oh... I forgot to include the most important feature... The eye...

Later when I get back to my computer...

The eye is painted more traditionally...

Pin
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

Steven
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 09:59:18 am »

Hi Pin,

Thank you for sharing with us with more camera shots, Unfortunately I will still question about the strokes.  I have to say those are not real brush strokes from I can tell from the photos, if you took some photos from  any other real painted bottles, then do a comparison, you will find the difference, there is some new brush techniques like" patch with sponge" as you mentioned , but those techniques  will not applied on the portrait( at least I have not seen on before) , even its new technique, it still will have some defined edges.  when you look at the hairs the colors from brown to green gradient is a typical RGB color.

I have seen the eyes yet, I assumed that part of the portrait was painted, but most of it are photo enhanced, you mentioned the face of the baby is a little bit wide compared with the original photo, that could because the photo was stretched at widest part of the bottle( center of bottle also is the where the baby face is located).

Steven



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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 10:50:44 am »



















These are better pictures...cropped from the original......... no iphone on laptop.....


« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 11:16:10 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 10:51:39 am »

I tend to agree with everything our expert Steven has suggested, although Iam not so sure any part of it painted at all.. Thinking that yellow coloring through out may be some kind of adhesive for application of the photo. .
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AntPeople
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 11:51:24 am »

Hi George

I think I confused you with the lines.... It's bec of taking pictures on a monitor screen.... Just like you try to take a picture that appears on TV....

I was in the middle of attaching the left eyes when my laptop went out of batt... But we can make a comparison using the photo and painted right eye.... I do find differences...

Hi Steve

Take a look at the cropped from original.... Still a bit of RGB.... But is it true that all lenses will split RGB to a small extend even if they are good optics and esp the subject is back lighted...?

Thanks for your advices
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2015, 11:53:28 am »

Hi Pin,

There is definitely some new fake techniques going which we don't know yet, I have not seen a single fine defined strokes on the bottle. Yes, I can tell the eyes are painted for sure, but I am not certain if they are actually painted inside the bottle , or they are painted on some media, then applied inside the bottle. the yellow coating on the background are definitely something strange, and the greenish gradient colors on the top of the hairs also look not right to me, it should be consistent with the beginning of the strokes which is dark brown to black.

If you don't mind, I would like to see one last photo with the edge of the cloth at the bottom part, which  from the solid color to the translucent.

Thanks!

Steven
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2015, 09:51:50 pm »

Dear Pin,

Here is a portrait painted by Huangsan, As we can see the bottom of the portrait, how the strokes fade out to the translucent part, we can see the strokes easily at the border which the painter won't pay much attention on, since its not the focus of the painting .  we also  can easily see the  cross hatch strokes all through the painting, which is the typical way to paint the portrait, I won't say that all the portrait should be painted this way, but most likely the technique will be used here and there if the painter is a professional painter with skills.

Steven


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Fiveroosters
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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 01:33:31 am »

Dear Pin,
I am reading this and frankly I am understanding nothing. Can you describe clearly what you did?
I suppose that you give the picture of the baby to an IPB painter and he gives you back the bottle.
I repeat, I suppose, because you are not saying that. You just say “this is the photo”, “this is the bottle”. Well, after that can you say exactly what you did? You did take a picture, then you enlarge about 180%: what did you enlarge? The original picture or a detail? You can't enlarge the original picture, if you do so you have a lack of definition. If I understand correctly it seems that the pictures that you are showing to us are pictures of details seen on the monitor, taken by the iphone! Is that correct? If so, they are completely useless! But again, please tell us what you exactly did, because I am risking to give a wrong opinion if the matter is not as I understood. If I understood correctly, then I will tell you why this is not the right procedure.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 01:53:19 am »

Hi Steven :

1) This one is a macro that I just took using only natural light only in my room........ White balance is probably around 5500K.... no colour adjustment.... samething, D700 with 55mm macro lens, but as there are no additional light source and I still hand held, depth of field and shutter speed will suffer and therefore the picture quality will be not as clear and focused when the pictures are blown up to 10X.




Facial Features


Lower Portion of Bottle


Hair and Top Portion of Head




2) Take a look at the below series of pictures... all are taken by iPhone.... all the pictures are taken within 5-10s time different and at the same sitting position....... the only thing different is that the are gradually moved upward in an arc, just like the hands of a clock, from horizontal to my bed to directly upright, which now then the bottle in between my iphone and my balcony light.... (basically, this will also means that the bottle is move from a front lighting scenario, laying on the bed...... to a back lighting scenario, where the light coming from the balcony will illuminate the bottle from behind much more than in front)

i) Horizontal to the bed 6 oclock position) you can see my iphone on the bottle


ii) Approx. 25 Degree Up (7 oclock position)


iii) Approx. 50 Degree Up (8 oclock position)


iv) Upright 90 Degree (9 oclock position)


See what a big different when you see the bottle from a frontlighting situation compared to a backlighting situation ....



3) I might have George and you confused with the Yellow colouration too..... that's bec when I initially put a back and bottom light on the bottle yesterday... what I saw was close to iphone picture 4, which is the upright position.... I alter the colour saturation towards the red and orange to bring out the "sponge patching" effect on the bottle.....

See this comparison.... between natural light and orange shifted pictures

Natural Light..... (A little blur at this magnification, sorry)


Orange/Red Saturated Photo



Same area..... but see the major different in painting texture when its tweak by photoshop......

Pin

« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 05:07:13 am by AntPeople » Report Spam   Logged

五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2015, 02:00:44 am »

Hi Giovanni :

Sorry about that.... I should have give some back ground information..... sorry

Yes, the photo that you see is the one that I send to Zhang Yong and ask if he can ask one of his apprentice student to paint a portrait in a snuff bottle....

The bottle came back as shown...

Maybe ignore the previous post and see my last reply first.... it should be clearer

Thanks...
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五花馬,千金裘。呼兒將出換美酒,與爾同銷萬古愁。

http://www.chinese-snuff-bottle.com

Peter Bentley 彭达理
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 05:17:27 am »

Hi  Pin

Based  on the  latest  pics  I would   say  with  100%  certainty  that  it's a  real   painting of  your  beautiful  baby Smiley

Anyway, although  I  have  first  hand  evidence  of   ZY  signing  on  his  students' bottles  I  am certain that  he  would  never  let  any of  his   students   use    any  photo-enhanced  "cheating"   techniques

Just  for  my  own personal  interest :   do you  know  which  student  paid  for  it  and  what  was the  price (please  reply  by private  message  if you   wish )

Cheers

Peter
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2015, 08:53:37 am »

Thank you Pin for additional photos. And Yes, The I can pretty much certain the bottle is painted from the last picture. Smiley

I was fooled by the photos you took from the monitor which was obviously RGB color.

We have a happy ending.Smiley

Steven
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2015, 04:57:56 pm »

Dear all,
sorry but I must say that, in my opinion, in this conditions this is a completely useless exercise, regardless if the answers (painted, not painted), are correct or not.
Pin did not answer to my question, I think because he did not understand them. Without knowing what we are looking at, the opinions are just a guess.
First at all, we do not know what is the starting image. Saying that it has been magnified of 180 % is not clear. What has been magnified? The whole original image? If so, that is not correct, you are seeing the pixels that way. Or it has been magnified a part of the image that was on the screen? If so, we do not know if by enlarging that part by 180 % we still are below the maximum resolution or over it.
But all this is the less of the problems. The really big problem is that we are looking at a picture which is taken this way: an iphone (resolution unknown) takes the picture of a computer screen (resolution extremely low) on which it is an enlargement of an unknown ratio of the detail of a digital picture. Now, how can we know what indeed is what we are looking at in such circumstances? It is almost impossible, but almost surely the pictures shown by Pin are showing us basically the pixels of the sensors and of the screen and not a concrete image.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2015, 06:26:09 pm »

I agree... So happy for you that it is truly painted !

Although...  I am still perplexed as to the painting method used because of the lack of definitive brush strokes..

Regardless ...  Really relieved and as Steven said, "happy ending" !
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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2015, 06:53:03 pm »

Well Pin, it took some effort and appropriate documentation by photos in your last post, but I'm now convinced the bottle is indeed hand painted.  Just goes to show how wonderful the paint technique and methods are getting these days.  When I first saw how perfect the design in the clothing was followed and how the image ended against the clear glass, it left me questioning as to whether the bottle was surely a photo processed image.  That being said, I've purchase some IPBs and it's taken me some effort to set them up under the right lighting and magnification to convince me that they were all hand painted.  With all the available painting methods now a days some artists are doing outstanding image replications.  This only leaves me to question at some level as to whether the image reproduction quality is getting so good to the detriment of artistic liberty.  

Regardless, the bottle with the the image of your child is and always will be a treasured keepsake.  

Charll  
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

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