Bottles of exceptionally flat shape

[Wattana]

Sharing a recently photographed bottle from my collection....

Description:
A plain lapis-lazuli snuff bottle of dark blue colour with splashes of grey, of well hollowed, flattened spade form, with an exaggeratedly flared neck and wide flat lip, the thin flat lateral sides tapering slightly down to a narrow flat foot. Coral stopper with an integral finial and collar in the form of what is commonly referred to as an official's hat.

Height without stopper:  6.0cm.

Tentative dating: 1750-1840

Further comments:
Lapis was widely used during the Qing period, as it was used to denote a particular rank of mandarin at court. Often it was not of spectacular colour, and the material of this bottle seems typical of a good deal of mid-Qing output.
This extreme flattened form appears to have been influenced by a series of porcelain bottles which began to appear in the early 1800s.
For a very similar bottle see John Gilmore Ford: "Chinese Snuff Bottles: The Edward Choate O'Dell Collection", no. 37.

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Tom,

     A beautiful bottle. This is the form called a 'boot flask' by Anne Kreuger, in her 1981 lecture in Honolulu at the ICSBS convention. It was called this because the wide mouth rim, jutting sharply out from the body ( clearly visible in the second to last, or penultimate, pic), would stop the bottle from slipping down into the boot of the Manchu or Mongol horseman who was holding it in his boot.
Best,
Joey

[Wattana]

Thank you Joey.
     I have never heard that expression before, only being familiar with the similarly dubbed 'boot bottle', which refers to those nephrite jade ones with one rounded and one flat side.
All best,
Tom

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Tom,

     All flattened flask shaped bottles with wide-flaring necks were called 'boot flasks' by Anne Kreuger in her talk. Many of them are indeed white nephrite jade. I don't recall 'boot bottles' or bottles with one flat side and one rounded side.
Best,
Joey

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Tom,

    If you type 'boot flask' into the SEARCH window above, you will see earlier references to boot flasks.
Best,
Joey

[Wattana]

I don't recall 'boot bottles' or bottles with one flat side and one rounded side.

Dear Joey,
    Below is an illustration of the type I mean.
All best,
Tom

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Tom,
you always come with such superb shaped bottles! Congratulations for you good taste. Thank you for sharing.
Giovanni

[Wattana]

Dear Giovanni,
    Thank you. I have a particular fondness for these very flat bottles.
Regards,
Tom

[George]

Another really beautiful bottle Tom !

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Tom,

    I myself have bottles with one polished 'skin' side and white on other sides, but I never heard the term 'boot bottle' in reference to them; to what is it meant to refer?
Best,
Joey

[OIB]

Joey,

I thought what Tom describe is not that of ' yellow ' on one side and ' white ' on the other.

Rather, from the picture posted , I guess it means one face of the bottle is flat whilst the other half has the standard rounded feature. Am I right, Tom ?

Inn Bok

[OIB]

Tom,

What I like about your Lapis bottle is its thin body ( side view ), tapering down to the base, hardly able to stand on its own.

I have two bottles of different materials with thin body and a base that hardly allows the bottle to stand on its own.
The first bottle is chalcedony, double gourd form.

Inn Bok

[OIB]

Tom,

This is the second bottle, bamboo material.

Inn Bok

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Inn Bok,

      In reference to your post (#10), I can see that as well, although it is the 'skin' from a jade boulder, and not 'yellow' jade on the flat side; I had a few like that. But I don't understand the 'boot bottle' reference in this context.
      With the 'boot flasks', they were designed to be held in the boot - when slipped into the top of a boot by a Manchu or Mongol horseman, the flat shape of the flask allowed it to be slipped in easily, but the very widely flaring neck stopped the flask from going in all the way, keeping it in easy access at the top of the boot.

     Best,
Joey

Joey,

I thought what Tom describe is not that of ' yellow ' on one side and ' white ' on the other.

Rather, from the picture posted , I guess it means one face of the bottle is flat whilst the other half has the standard rounded feature. Am I right, Tom ?

Inn Bok

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Inn Bok,

     The Chalcedony double gourd bottle may well have also been a boot flask, and is superb.
Equally superb as a bottle, but definitely NOT suitable as a boot flask, is the Bamboo Veneer bottle you posted.
First, the material is too delicate - it would be crushed in a boot, pressed between the straining leather of the boot and the calve.
Second, the neck does NOT flare out when seen from the side, as both the double gourd and Lapis Lazuli examples do.

    But both are beautiful examples.
Thank you for posting them,
Joey

[YT]

Dear Tom and Inn Bok,

These are all beautiful bottles yet they are under the Lapis Lazuli thread.
 
Can we change the title to 'Beautiful flat bottles' or something that sounds nicer?

Cheers,
YT

PS, thanks for posting.

[OIB]

Joey,

I did not intend to associate my examples with the ' boot flasks ' mentioned.

Thanks for liking them.

Both bottles I posted were made of materials not suitable for putting into a boot. Chalcedony is not as tough as hard stone like lapis lazuli, especially when the bottle has a very slender waist line !

Tom's example just triggers my mind to think of bottles of rather thin body.

YT,

I don't know if there will be enough examples of bottles with rather thin body for us to start a new category !

Inn Bok

[Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司]

Dear Inn Bok,
 
     Actually, Chalcedony is harder than Lapis Lazuli, but possibly more 'brittle' (can break easier). But I know that there were boot flasks of this hardstone, because Anne Kreuger illustrated a number in her lecture.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were posting them as examples of boot flasks.
Best,
Joey

[Wattana]

Rather, from the picture posted , I guess it means one face of the bottle is flat whilst the other half has the standard rounded feature. Am I right, Tom ?

Dear Inn Bok,

Exactly right.............or "spot on" as we say in England!

Thanks for sharing your two 'flat' bottles. They are both delightful. If I am not mistaken, I believe I have handled one of them when we met, either in Bangkok or in Singapore.

Tom

[Wattana]

    I myself have bottles with one polished 'skin' side and white on other sides, but I never heard the term 'boot bottle' in reference to them; to what is it meant to refer?

Dear Joey,
     Inn Bok answered your question in his post #10 immediately below yours.
     We obviously read different books and catalogues when it comes to snuff bottles! I am really surprised you have not come across the expression 'boot bottle' before. I don't personally like the term (whereas I DO like this shape of bottle), so it jars in my mind every time I read about a bottle described in this way. I cannot say the words 'boot bottle' appear every time I read about this type of bottle, but perhaps in 50% of cases. I assumed it was a commonly coined expression, but apparently not!
     Conversely, and amusingly, I had never heard the term 'boot flask' until you mentioned it a few days ago.
All best,
Tom