Porcelain Pottery Glazing Fake

[Sam]

Hi All
 
I'm very new to this so ignore my complete lack of knowledge.  Before I started doing some reading about fakes, I purchased these two bottles off ebay.  They were titled UNUSUAL SHAPE c1900 ANTIQUE SIGNED PORCELAIN BLUE & WHITE SNUFF BOTTLE & LID and c1900 ANTIQUE SIGNED HAND PAINTED PORCELAIN BLUE & WHITE SNUFF BOTTLE & LID.  The specifics for both were Seller Notes “VERY GOOD CONDITION WITH NO CHIPS, CRAZING, SCRATCHES..THE LID IS ORIGINAL, THE CORK HAS DETERIORATED WITH AGE SO NEEDS A NEW ONE, I HAVE ADDED A PIECE OF TAPE FOR NOW WHICH KEEPS THE LID TIGHT FOR THE TIME BEING..”
Product:           Snuff Bottles    Original/Repro:  Original
Sub-Type:         Porcelain          Primary Material:           Porcelain/ Pottery
Age:     1850-1899         Dynasty:           Qing c1644~c1912
Region of Origin:           Chinese.
I also purchased from them a cinnabar at a cheap price and having looked at several cinnabar items since and doing some little tests on it (as it was so cheap and I was sure it was fake) I can say that I'm 99.9% sure it is a fake.  I purchased these bottles from the UK not China.
When I received the bottles the glazing was very thick and yellowish and ended at the top of the bottle and at the top of the lid and pooled at the bottom of the bottle.  I've added photographs so you can see. I notified the seller that I intended to find out if they were fakes and also asked to return the Cinnabar.  Needless to say, this person did not respond and seems to have removed themselves from ebay.  I was wondering if someone could actually tell me, since it appears I can't return them, what they are probably made out of and whether by chance they are worth keeping or discarding.  I didn't pay much for them. Thanks for any help you can give.

Sam

[George]

The description of 1850-1899 is not correct.  These could well have been made last week. They are made of porcelain, but the stopper or cork area never was cork. It is porcelain as well, and it is not worn from age.  The yellowing could be an attempt to make it appear old.

When you approach the seller for a refund, probably can't use the idea they are fake, because they are snuff bottles.. But the description of 19th century is misleading and incorrect.

Hope you can get the refund.. !

[rpfstoneman]

Sam,

Welcome to the Forum!  Looks like George provide some information while I was composing a response.
 
Neither of these bottles are antique; i.e., antique generally being 100 years or more in age.  Both are new, and if not new, relatively newish.  They may not even be painted for a number of these types of bottles are stenciled.  Closer images or higher resolution photos would help to verify stenciling.  If the blue is stenciled you can make out a dot pattern when viewed with a jeweler’s loop or good a magnifying glass.   These are very typical of what’s being produced today (for what purpose I have yet to comprehend) and coming out of China in masses.  They are only worth than a few dollars if that much and have no collecting value in my opinion.   Sounds like you may have already suspected this though.

Respectfully,
Charll

[Pat - 查尚杰]

Sam

Welcome to the Forum.  Although the seller may have disappeared on Ebay, you still have recourse on Paypal, as far as I understand their policies.  Try it out.  I agree that these are literally new bottles and churned out by the thousands, as indicated by Charll.  I lived in China long enough to get tired of seeing these everywhere...  If nothing else, look at it as a lesson in collecting.  We have all been there, at least once...   

[Sam]

Thanks, everyone.  I'll take your advice and use it well.

Sam

[Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush]

Dear Sam,
George, Tom and Pat said everything about your bottles, sorry. I would like to add a further suggestion: stay away from bottles with that type of stopper! (which indeed is even not worth to be called stopper as it lacks its function).
Kind regards
Giovanni