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Charll shared this beautiful Xianfeng (1851-1861) dated bottle depicting NeZha combating the Dragon King amongst a rolling sea of blue and eight mythical sea creatures.


Chinese Snuff Bottle Discussion Forum 中國鼻煙壺討論論壇
March 28, 2024, 05:29:27 am
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Such a shame

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seadancer1
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« on: October 02, 2015, 04:34:01 pm »

Hi guys, I thought I would put up some of my collection you have not seen for comment  Smiley
This bottle I bought from a charity shop as I thought it was worth the couple of dollars despite the damage, if for no other reason than to keep for a specimen of its type....besides, I like it.
It measures approximately 85mm x 27mm. I don't know if the stopper is original.  What I would like to know is the age, if possible, and if the style is called famille verte or famille noire? Do you think it's worth keeping even though it's damaged?
Cheers Brenda


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seadancer1
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 04:40:00 pm »

Another pic ...close up


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seadancer1
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 04:45:46 pm »

More pics...anyone know what the marks are?


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seadancer1
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 04:48:56 pm »

And another...five clawed dragon.


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rpfstoneman
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 05:35:19 pm »

Brenda,

This bottle appears to date most likely from the Guangxu Period (1875-1908) even though it appears to have a four character Qianlong mark on the base.  It would be a great little bottle if it were more pristine.

What a bummer in regard to the damage.  It appears a good portion of the base and/or foot was broken at one time as seen by the old glue lines and then there is a portion of the foot rim is missing.   If it was just a potion of the foot rim missing I would consider a restoration, otherwise I would have to look at the bottle to see just how extensive the damage is.
   
Pieces with the decoration executed in Famille Verte (green) enamels sometimes occur with the decoration set against a black or yellow background, they are known as Famille Noire and Famille Jaune, respectively. (See terms at http://gotheborg.com/index.htm)  Thus I would call this Famille Noire. 

Charll
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Charll K Stoneman, Eureka, California USA, Collector Since 1979.

Steven
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 09:07:45 pm »

Hi Brenda,

Thank you for sharing, I am with Charll on the date of the bottle. Its pity for the damage.

I shared a very similar bottle a while back, which can be the sibling of the bottle, even with the same mark, they could from the same workshop .

Steven


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YT
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 06:41:19 pm »

Dear Brenda,

You should keep it since you bought it from a charity shop. It may have brought your health back faster for your kindness.

This bottle can still look good as a display piece.

Cheers,
YT
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seadancer1
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 07:22:07 pm »

Thanks all...yes I will keep it, I have a strong feeling that this bottle comes from the goldrush days here in Australia.  Smiley
Cheers Brenda
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George
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 10:45:59 pm »

Beautiful bottle.. !

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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2015, 11:09:34 am »

Dear Brenda,

      I agree with Steven and Charll, re. the dating and re.the sadness over the damage. Pat has a number of damaged bottles which would be very desirable if in better condition. He doesn't mind 'protecting and treasuring' damaged examples.
      It is a fine attitude, which I wish I was able to adopt, if I weren't so bourgeoisie.  Roll Eyes
Best,
Happy Simchat Torah,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

seadancer1
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2015, 03:43:26 pm »

I just call them "well loved"Joey   Cheesy
Cheers Brenda
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 04:21:19 am »

Dear Brenda,

      I have a small collection of  5-7  modern Steiff teddy bears (I had a much larger collection, over 55, but started giving them to nieces, nephews, cousins, children of friends), and was offered a 'much loved' older one from before 1933, as a gift.
   
      I just could not deal with its condition, and suggested to my friend that she sell it in a Christie's teddy bear auction in London. She asked if it was worth the bother, and would she not just drop it off to a St. Vincent de Paul charity shop! She got over UKŁ 10,000 in pocket. But even knowing that (I'd thought it would fetch UKŁ 3K, max., but knew she could use the money), I still would not have wanted it.

     I'm sorry, but anything in bad condition is disturbing to me. But I'm glad there are people like you and Pat, who do give these objects a loving home.

Best,
Joey
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

seadancer1
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 02:41:30 pm »

I can't speak for Pat Joey, but I have always been interested in history, so I don't mind the damage so much because it speaks of an items history. I can also understand where you are coming from because you are a serious collector who looks more at a bottle's artistic perfection and it's being the best of its type and style.  The teddy bear sold high because of the years of love and cuddles it showed by being so worn.when I look at a teddy like that, I don't see a stuffed toy, but a little girl or boy hugging and getting comfort from his much loved teddy bear.  Smiley
Cheers Brenda
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Joey Silver / Si Zhouyi 義周司
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2015, 02:54:00 pm »

Dear Brenda,
     Thank you. Thinking about how you see it, helps me widen my appreciation.
Best,
Joey


I can't speak for Pat Joey, but I have always been interested in history, so I don't mind the damage so much because it speaks of an items history. I can also understand where you are coming from because you are a serious collector who looks more at a bottle's artistic perfection and it's being the best of its type and style.  The teddy bear sold high because of the years of love and cuddles it showed by being so worn.when I look at a teddy like that, I don't see a stuffed toy, but a little girl or boy hugging and getting comfort from his much loved teddy bear.  Smiley
Cheers Brenda
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Joey Silver (Si Zhouyi 義周司), collecting snuff bottles since Feb.1970

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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2015, 09:04:35 pm »

Indeed Brenda

You voice some of my thoughts here.  I have had bottles crack further over time and then eventually I will discard them, but only if and when the artistic value has been eroded by the damage.  I have long looked (unsuccessfully) and experimented with repair but it has been futile for me so far.   I know one of our members here has successfully restored neck and foot damage to glass bottles and would love to learn from him but I am not aware of any way to repair hairline cracks. 

I have a few master painted bottles that I would love to restore one day (Zhou Le Yuan, Ye Zhongsan, Ma Shaoxuan, Meng Zishou, Yan Yutian, ...)
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Pat
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seadancer1
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2015, 04:31:48 am »

I guess we all have our own reasons for collecting,  Pat....and why some appeal where others dont.I have to confess I collect emotionally rather than intellectualy....pehaps it would be different if I had better finances, but somehow I don't think so. Smiley
Cheers Brenda
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Fiveroosters aka clayandbrush
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2015, 04:30:44 pm »

Dear Pat,
it is universally recognized that the best bond for hairlines, either for glass or porcelain, is Hxtal – NYL 1, which is recognized to be the more proper one because it does not yellowish with time. I never used it because here in Italy it is not available, I don't know if in your area you can find it.
I did read that in case of glass, most of the time the hairline virtually disappear because it has the same refraction index of the glass when cured. It is a two component type bond and it is not a fast curing one like cyanoacrylate, so the application should be easy.
Kind regards
Giovanni
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2015, 08:06:54 am »

Thanks Giovanni!  Will look for it....
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Best Regards

Pat
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